HomeMy WebLinkAboutOC1970-0535 - ESTATE OF REICHENBACHForm No. 14 (1968)
Notice-Disposition on Oral Examination ~ z
Washington County Bar Association
Washington, Penna.
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: ESTATE OF EliZABETH
I . CATHERINE REICHENBACH, Deceased.
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NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION
ON ORAL EXAMINATION UNDER
PA. R. C. P. No. 4007 (c)
Notice is g1v.en herewith that, pursuant to Pa. R. C. P. No. 4007, the deposition (s)
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Building, Canonsburg, Pennsylvania,
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ED\'/ IN F. Ell.l S
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AND NOW, this ........... L7, .......... day of ........................... S. . .eP.t . .em.P. . .e.r. ......................... , 19 ... Z.Q .. , I hereby accept
service of the within Notice and acknowledge to have received a copy thereof.
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IN INC ~UUKI Ur ~UMMUN rLtA~ U WASHINGTON COUNTY,PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
No. ~:7-7()-~0-~
IN ~E: ESTATE OF
EliZABETH CATHERiNE
REICHENBACH, Deceased.
PETITION FOR CITATION TO
COM?E L PRODUCT I ON (f \'JILL
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~~ v RODGERS AND RONEY ~ ~ ~ ATTORNEYS AT LAW
~ \l 6:3 SOUTH MAIN STREET ~ ~WASHINGTON, PENNSYLVA~IA . r . ' (1' ~' 1 \ ., 2 tt.A-:t. -~--· ' ~AI ~}cl ,,. -, ~, j
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'RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
453 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON. PA.
,.
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: ESTATE OF
ELIZABETH CATHERINE
REICHENBACH, Deceased.
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PETITION FOR CITATION TO COMPEL
PRODUCTION.OF WILL
TO THE HONORABLE RUSSELL MARINO, REGISTER OF WILLS OF
WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA:
. "
The petition of Arthur Kesten respectfully represents:
I. That El izabeth',Catherine Reichenbach, the decedent,
died on the 14th day of August, 1969, while residing at the
home of a nephew, Einer Kesten, at 124 Spring Drive, McMurray,
Washington County, Pennsylvania.
2. That prior to the death of the decedent, Elizabeth
Catherine Reichenbach, on or about the 30th day of June, 1968,
she made, published and declared her last Wi I I and Testament,
Item Second of which read as follows: "I give, devise and
bequeathal I of my property, real, personal or mixed, whereso-
ever the same may be situate, equally to my two nephews, Einer
Kesten and Arthur Kesten."
3. That said decedent at the time of her death had
substantial sums of money on deposit inter alia with the
Dollar Savings Bank of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, several
branches of the Pittsburgh Nat~onal Bank, with the Union
Nat i ona I Bank and the Mt. lebanon Federa I Savings and loan
Association, as wei I as cash, said sums being in total sub-
stantial ly in excess of $25,000, and it is necessary that the
said Wil I be produced for probate and Letters Testamentary
be granted thereon in this jurisdiction to your petitioner,
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
63 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON •. PA.
-mru
~-----· --·----
Arthur Kesten, and Einer Kesten, the named Co-Executors 1n the
aforesaid Wi II.
4. That the aforesaid Wil I of the decedent, Elizabeth
Catherine Reichenbach, immediately after her death came into
the possession of saidEiner Kesten and the said Einer Kesten
has neglected and refused and sti I I neglects and refuses to
produce the said Wi I I for probate, al~hough repeatedly requested
to do so by your petitioner.
WHEREFORE, your petitioner prays that a citation
may issue directed to the said Einer Kesten to show cause why
he should not produce the said Last Wi II and Testament of
Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach, deceased, dated June 30, 1968
for probate.
---·=
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
e3 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON. PA.
....
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
COUNTYOF ALLEGHENY ~ SS:
Before me, the undersigned authority, a Notary Public,
personally appeared ARTHUR KESTEN, who, being duly sworn
according to law, deposes and says t~ the facts set forth 1n
the foregoing Petition are true and correct to the best of his
knowledge, information and belief.
Sworn to and subscribed
before me this lrd
of
My Commission exp1res:
day
JOANNE PERCY, NOTARY PUBLlt:
PITTSBURGH, ALLEGHENY COUNT'{
MY COMM:SSION EXPIRES OCT. 16, 1972'
t.t.\ember, Pennsylvania Association of Notaries
I
"RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
f53 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON. PA.
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: ESTATE OF
ELIZABETH CATHERINE
REICHENBACH, Deceased.
CITATION
COUNTY OF WASHINGTON
COMMONWEAlTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
TO: EINER KESTEN
~ SS:
124 Spring Drive
McMurray, Pennsylvania 15317
At the instance of A~thur Kesten, joint beneficiary
under the Wi II of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach, deceased,
you are hereby cited to be and appear before our Register of
Wi I Is for the County of Washington, at his office, 1n the City
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of Washington, on the 28th day of ----~M~a~y~~------' 1970,
at 2:00 o'clock ~m., and to show cause if any you
have, why you should not produce the said Last Wi I I and Testament
of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach, deceased, dated June 30,
1968, for probate, and generally do and abide alI orders of the
said Court in the premises. And herein fai I not at your peri I.
WITNESS, Russel I Marino, Register of Wi I Is, and
the seal of his office at Washington in said County, the
21st day of May one thousand nine hundred and
seventy.
Register of Wi I Is
..
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N THE COURT OF COMMON PLE~S nF ~ASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVIS I ON
63 705 35
IN RE: ESTATE OF ELIZABETH
CATHERINE REICH[NOACH.
CAVEAT AND RE4UEST
FOR CE.RT IF I CA't'l ON ~ ... ~----:-
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RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
63 SOUTH MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PENNSYLVANIA
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: ESTATE OF ELIZABETH
CATHERINE REICHENBACH. ~ 63 705 35
CAVEAT AND REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATION
TO THE HONORABLE, RUSSELL MARINO, REGISTER OF WILLS,
WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA:
The CAVEAT of ARTHUR KESTEN, respectfully represents:
I. On or about May 21, 1970, your caveator filed his
Petition in this matter to compel one Einer Kesten to produce
the Last Wi I I and Testament of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach
deceased, dated June 20, 1968 for probate.
2. A hearing on the aforesaid Petition before the
Honorable Russel I Marino, Register of Wi I Is, of Washington
County, P'ennsylvania, was scheduled for May 28, 1970 at 2:00
o'clock P. M.
3. About 1:00 o'clock P. M. on the aforesaid date of
May 28, 1970, M i I ton D. Rosenberg, attorney for E i ner Kesten,
deposited with the Register of Wi I Is the aforesaid last Wi I I and
Testament of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach, dated June 30, 1968,
but in addition thereto deposited a purported alleged Codici I to
the aforesaid Last Wil I and Testament of Elizabeth Catherine
Reichenbach, said Codici I being dated allegedly June 6, 1969.
4. The alleged Codicil purports to disinherit your
caveator, Arthur Kesten, and purports to remove your caveator,
Arthur Kesten, as Co-Executor of the Wi I I of Elizabeth Catherine
Reichenbach, and purports to leave the ent~re estate of the
decedent to said Einer Kesten and his wife and purports to appoint
said Einer Kest~n the sole Executo} of the Last Wil I of El izabet~/
RoDGERs AND RoNEY Catherine Reichenbach.
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
es S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON. PA.
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
63 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PA.
5. Arthur Kesten, beneficiary of one-half of the
estate of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach under the Last Wi I I and
Testament of said Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach dated June 30,
1968, files this CAVEAT against the said paper writing dated
June 6, 1969 purporting to be a Codici I to the Last Wil I and
Testament of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach and in support of
his CAVEAT and objection he assigns the following reasons:
A. That the said paper writing of June 6, 1969 was
obtained from said Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach by fraud and
undue influence of said Einer Kesten and his wife, Pauline A.
Kesten.
B. That at the date of the said paper writing of
June 6, 1969, the said E I i zabeth Catherine Rei chen bach was not
of sound, disposing mind, memory or understanding.
C. That certain material questions are 1n controversy
between the caveator and the said Einer Kesten and his wife,
Pauline A. Kesten:
(I) Whether the said paper writing dated June 6, 1969
purporting to be a Codici I to La•t Wi I I and Testament of
Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach was not procured by the
fraud and the undue influence of said Einer Kesten and
Pauline A. Kesten, his wife.
(2) Whether at the time the alleged execution of the
said Codici I dated Jun~ 6, 1969, the said Elizabeth Catherine
Reichenbach was of sound, disposing mind,. memory and under-
standing.
WHEREFORE, the caveator, Arthur Kesten, petitions and
requests the Honorable Russel I Marino, Register of Wi I Is of
Washington County, Pennsylvania to certify the record to the
Orphans.' Court.
Arthur
Beneficiary of the Wi I I of
Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach,
Deceased.
... -----------~--------c•-----·· ·----------
I~: TI-lE COUHT 0F co: .. i \Ot\ PLEAS 0
Li\SH H:GTu~: COU~!TY, ~~:::1\~!SYLVi.N I
OR~HANS' COU~T OIVISIO~
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b3 705 35
IN .~E: ESTATE OF Ell ZABETH
CATHE.H ~;E ;(EICHEN BACH.
3ot: D~ Of __ Ci_~__VG1J_01{
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RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
6:3 SOUTH MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PENNSYLVANIA
-----~-1
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RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
53 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PA.
. '
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY,PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVIS I ON
IN RE: ESTATE OF ELIZABETH
CATHERlNE REICHENBACH. ~ 63 705 35
BOND OF CAVEATOR
KNOW ALL MEN BY THESE PRESENTS, That we Arthur Kesten,
of Pittsburgh, AI legheny County, Pennsylvania, Principal, and
THE lETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY, Surety
are held and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,
in the sum of Five Hundred ($500.00) Dol Iars, to be paid to said
Commonwealth, to which payment wei I and truly to be made, we do
bind ourselves, jointly and severally, for and in the whole, our
heirs, executors, administrators,· successors and assigns, and
each and every one of them, firmly by theee presents.
/0/1-Sea I ed with ·our seals, and dated the ~ ' ;970 ..
V:EAS, the said Arthur festen, on the &a;:
day of
day
0 Washington County, Pennsylvania, a Caveat against
the admission to probate of a paper writing dated June 6,1969,
alleged to be a Codicil to the Last Will and Testament of Eliza-
beth Catherine Reichenbach, dated June 30, 1968.
NOW, THE CONDITION OF THIS OBLIGATION IS That if the
said caveator, Arthur Kesten, shal I pay any and alI costs which
may be occasioned by reason of such caveat, and which may be
decreed by such Register of Wil Is, or by the Orphans' Court
Division of the Court of Common Pleas of Washington County,
Pennsylvania, to be paid by such caveator, then this obi igation
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
63 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON. PA.
to be void, otherwise to rematn tn
Sealed and delivered tn
the presence of
ATTEST:
~ /~1•L~
Ann Kravetsky, Resident Asst. Secretary
Countersigned: 0 !(/ ~/uf
0. H. Stewart, Licensed Resident Agent
esident
THE JETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY
Hartford, Connecticut 06115 I
POWER OF ATIORNEY AND CERTIFICATE OF AUTHORITY
OF RESIDENT VICE PRESIDENT(S) AND RESIDENT ASSISTANT SECRETARY(IES)
KNOW ALL MEN BY THESE PRESENTS, THAT THE IETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY, a corporation organized under
the laws of the State of Connecticut and having its principal office in the City of Hartford, County of Hartford, State of Connecticut, _by its
duly authorized officer, does hereby appoint the following resident officer( s), with business address indicated below but without tewtonal
restriction, and does grant full power and authority to each Resident Vice President to sign and execute on its behalf, and to each Resident
Assistant Secretary to seal and attest on its behalf, any and all bonds, recognizances, contracts of indemnity, or writings obligatory in the nature of
a bond, recognizance, or conditional undertaking and any and all consents incident thereto, and all such instruments signed by any one of
said Resident Vice Presidents, when sealed and attested by any other person named below as one of said Resident Assistant Secretaries, shall be as
valid and binding upon the Company as if the same had been signed by the President and duly sealed and attested:
RESIDENT VICE PRESIDENT ( S)
Lewis A. Hazen
Samuel F. Doane, Jr.
Daniel J. Borrell
John R. McAvoy
Johns. Prim
O. H. Stewart
M. C. Smith
J. J. Zaums
** *
RESIDENT ASSIST ANT SECRETARY ( IES)
Lewis A. Hazen
Samuel F. Doane, Jr.
Daniel J. Borrell
John R. McAvoy
Johns. Prim
O. H. Stewart
Ann Kravetsky
* * *
BUSINESS ADDRESS
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
These appointments are made under and by authority of the following provisions of the By-Laws of the Company which provisions are now in
Jull force and effect and are the only applicable provisions of said By-Laws:
ARTICLE IV-Section 8. The President, any Vice President, or any SP.cretary may from rime to rime appoint Resident Vice Presidents, Resident Assistant
Secretaries, Attorneys-in-Fact, and Agents ro act for and on behalf of rhe Company and may give any such appointee such authority as his certificate of authority
may prescribe to sign with the Company's name and seal with the Company's seal bonds, recognizances, contracts of indemnity, and other writings obligatory
iri •the nature of a bond, recognizance, or conditional undertaking, and any of said officers or rhe Board of Directors may ar any rime remove any such appointee
and revoke rhe power and authority given him.
ARTICLE IV-Section 10. Any bond, recognizance, contract of indemnity, or writing obligatory in the nature of a bond, recognizance, or conditional under-
taking shall be valid and binding upon rhe Company when (a) signed by rhe President or a Vice President or by a Resident Vice President, pursuant to the
power prescribed in the certificate of authority of such Resident Vice President, and duly arrested and sealed wirh rhe Company's seal by a Secretary or As-
sistant Secretary or by a Resident Assistant Secretary, pursuant ro the power prescribed in rhe certificate of authority of such Resident Assistant Secretary; or (b)
duly executed (under seal, if required) by one or more Attorneys-in-Fact pursuant to the power prescribed in his or their certificate or certificates of authority.
This Power of Attorney and Certificate of Authority is signed and sealed by facsimile under and by authority of rhe following Resolution voted by the Board
of Directors of THE iETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY ar a meeting duly called and held on the 22nd day of November, 1968.
VOTED: That the signature of William 0. Bailey, Senior Vice President, or of Andrew H. Anderson, Vice President, or of D. N. Gage, Assistant Vice Pres-
ident, or of Neil H. Pfanstiel, Secretary, or of Benjamin I. Radding, Secretary, or of Curtis K. Shaw, Secretary, and the seal of rhe Company may be affixed by
facsimile to any power of attorney or to any certificate relating thereto appointing Resident Vice Presidents, Resident Assistant Secretaries or Attorneys-in-Fact
for purposes only of executing and arresting bonds and undertakings and other writings obligatory in the nature thereof, and any such power of attorney or
certificate bearing such facsimile signature or facsimile seal shall be valid and binding upon the Company and any such power so executed and certified by
such facsimile signature and facsimile seal shall be valid and binding upon the Company in rhe future with respect to any bond or undertaking to which it is
attached.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, THE IETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY has caused this instrument to be signed by its
Secretary , and its corporate seal to be hereto affixed this 16th day of March , 19 ?O
State of Connecticut
County of Hartford }ss. Hartford
THE IETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY
/~7[~ By ____ _
Secretary
On this 16th day of March , 19 70, before me personally came CURTIS K. SHAW
to me known, who, being by me duly sworn, did depose and say: that he is Secretary of THE
IETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY, the corporation described in and which executed the above instrument; that he knows the
seal of said corporation; that the seal affixed to the said instrument is such corporate seal; that it was so affixed by authority of his office under
the By-Laws of said corporation and that he signed his name thereto by like authority.
CERTIFICATE
I, the undersigned, Secretary of THE IETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY,
a stock corporation of the State of Connecticut, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing and attached Power of Attorney and Cer-
tificate of Authority remains in full force and has not been revoked; and furthermore, that Article IV-Sections 8 and 10, of the By-Laws of
the Company, and the Resolution of the Board of Directors, as set forth in the Certificate of Authoritr. are now in force.
/OYf-day of Sigred nd Sealed at the Home Office of the Company, in the City of Hartford, State of Connecticut. Dated this
, 19 70 [~~---------~---------
Secretary
(S-1924-B) (M) 1-69
CAT. 181501 PRINTED IN U.S.A.
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IIi'! I Ht ~UURl Ut: ~u~-r;~1UN ~· Lt.P.::::> U'
.tASH I ~!GTON COU1~TY, P Ei:NS Y LVAN t A
O~PHANS' COURT JlVISl0N
;•!o •
I~ .,€: ESTATE vf
EliZABETH CATHER li!E
:~E I Cl!Ei+!DACII, Deceeoed.
PETITtO~ FOR C!TATION TO cb:.::J E l PROD UC110i!Cr"'~7'lTL
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
63 SOUTH MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PENNSYLVANIA
~ ~-~,
I
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
53 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON. PA.
lN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: ESTATE OF
ELIZABETH CATHERINE
REICHENBACH, Deceased.
PETITION FOR CITATION TO COti.PEL
PRODUCTION OF Will
TO THE HONORABLE RUSSELL ~~RINO, REGISTER OF WILLS Of
\!ASH I NGTON COUNTY, PENNSY LVA N lA:
The petition of Arthur Kosten respectfully represents:
I. That EJ izabeth'.Catherine Reichenbach, the decedent,
died on the 14th day of Auguot, 1969, while residing at tho
home of a nephew, Einer Kesten, at 124 Spring Drive, McMurray,
Washington County, Pennsylvania.
2. That prior to the death of the decedent, Elizabeth
Catherine Reichenbach, on or about the 30th day of June, 1968,
she made, published and declared her Last Will and Testament,
l tem Second of which read as fo II ows: ~~I give, devise and
bequeath all of my property, real, peroonal or mixed, whereso•
ever the same may be situate, equally to my two nephews, Einer
Kesten and Arthur Kesten."
3. That said decedent at the time of her death had
substantial sums of money on deposit inter alia with the
Dol Jar Savings Bank of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, several
branches of the Pittsburgh National Bank, with the Union
National Bank and the Mt. lebanon Federal Savings and loan
Association, as well as cash, said sums being in total sub-
stantially in excess of $25,000, and it is necessary that the
said Will be produced for probate and letters Testamentary
be granted thereon in this jurisdiction to your petitioner,
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT L.AW
63 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PA.
Arthur Kesten, and Einer Kesten, the named Co-Executors in the
aforesaid \0 I I •
4. That the aforesaid Will of the decedent, Elizabeth
Catherine Reichenbach, imm0diately after her death came into
the possession of saidEiner Kesten and the said Einer Kesten
has neglected and refused and sti II neglects and refuses to
produce the said Will for probate, although repeatedly requested
to do so by your petitioner.
WHEREFORE, your petitioner prays that a citation
may issue directed to the said Einer Kesten to show cause why
he should not produce the said last Will and Testament of
Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach, deceased, dated June 30, 1968
for probate.
/ s/ Arthur KeS:en
Arthur "Kesten
Pet it i oner
(Sea I)
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT L.AW
63 B. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PA.
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
COUNTY OF ALLEGHENY l SS:
Before me, the underaigned authority, a Notary Public,
personally appeared ARTHUR KESTEN, who, being duly sworn
according to law, deposes and sayo ~ the facts set forth in
the foregoing Petition are true and correct to the best of his
knowledge, information and belief.
/s/ Arthur Kesten
Arthur Kesten
Sworn to and subscribed
before me this 19th day
of May -, 1970.
/s..f Joanne Percy
Notary Public
My Commission expires:
JOANNE PERCY, Notary Public
Pittsburgh, AI legheny County
My Commission expires Oct. 16, 1972.
Member, Pennsylvania Association of Notaries
RODGERS AND RONEY
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
63 S. MAIN STREET
WASHINGTON, PA.
lN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
lN RE: ESTATE OF
ELIZABETH CATHERINE
REICHENBACH, Deceased.
CITATION
COUNTY OF WASHINGTON
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
TO: ElNER KESTEN
124 Spring Drive
McMurray, Pennsylvania. 15317
At the instance of A~thur Kesten, joint beneficiary
under the Will of Eli%abeth Catherine Reichenbach, deceased, ,-
you are hereby cited to be and appear before our Register of
Wi lis for the County of Washington, at his office, in the City
of Washington, on the -=2=8t~h~-day of _..J,;.l1~a~Y--·---' 1970, ..... ..
at 2:00 o'clock ~m., and to show cause if any you
have, why you should not produce the said last \1i II and Testamen
of Elizabeth Catherine Reichenbach~ deceased, dated June 30,
1968, for probate, and generally do and abide all orders of the
said Court in the premises. And herein fail not at your peri I.
WITNESS, Russell Merino, Register of Wi lis, and
the seal of his office at Washington in said County, the
I.fay one thousand nine hundred and
A1TEST.= :··.·. 1Z nop. Y tr:o.m tbs Raco:rd. ,,. v -~ ·~ -____ ._JG_~
Reg. of wn l.e a.rtd clerk 0. c.
~~~i.
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS" COURT DIVISION
NO. 63 -705 -35
h3 -70--SJs-
IN RE: ~">n-J ESTATE OF
ELIZABETH CATHERINE REICKENBACH,
Deceased.
DEPOSITIONS of PAULINE A. KESTEN and EINER KESTEN and
EINER KESTEN (Continued)
Taken at the offices of Rodgers and Roney, Esquires, on
October 13, 1970 at 3:00 o'clock P.M., E.S.T., and on
September 7, 1972 at 1:30 o'clock P.M., E.S.T., upon agree-
ment of Counsel,before Florence Dasta, Stenographer-Notary Public,
pursuant to.Pa. R. C. P. No. 4007.
. ........... ~ ... ..., ,; fiLED
~;2/1}9/d-
RUSS£ll MARINO
ClEGISYER OF \jiL~
And now, November 11 , 1972, I hereby certify to have received
my fee in the sum of$ 1/Z:I~ from Rodgers & Roney, Esquires,
counsel for Arthur Kesten, for my stenographic and notarial services
rendered in both of the depositions hereinabove stated.
17!YJ" _lt.1.6o
tf/7/ 7~ -1 SJ/, s-o
7 II J·l o
~A
-.... ~ -.J
------------------------------------------------
I•
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE:
ESTATE OF ELIZABETH CATHERINE : NO. 63 -705-35 REICKENBACH,
Deceased.
DEPOSITION of EINER KESTEN
Taken at the offices of Rodgers and Roney,
Esqs., Law and Finance Building, Canonsburg,
Pennsylvania, on Tuesday, 'October 13, 1970,
at 3:.00 o'clock P. M., Eastern Standard
Time, before Florence Dasta, Notary Public,
pursuant to Pa. R. c. P. No. 4007, upon
agreement of counsel.
A P P E A R A N C E S: SAMUEL L. RODGERS, ESQ.,of the
firm of Rodgers and Roney; and
EDWIN F. ELLIS, ESQ., a member
~ of the Allegheny County Bar
Association, representing
Arthur Kesten.
MILTON D. ROSENBERG, ESQ. and
THOMAS D. GLADDEN, ESQ., of th
firm of Bloom, Bloom, RosenberP
and Bloom, representing
Einer Kesten and Pauline Keste 11•
, I
•
MR. RODGERS: We will have the usual
stipulation that no objections are waived, except if you have
an objection to the form of the question, I wish you would state
it so that if I desire, I can rephrase it.
MR. ROSENBERG: Or, withdraw it. As a rule,
however, we always stipulate that no objections are waived.
I'll try to object to the form.
MR. RODGERS: All right. We will take,
first, the deposition of Einer K~sten but first of all, I want
to put on the record a request that these two persons be separ-
ated for the purpose of this deposition, and I feel that this
is only proper in connection with this proceeding, and I'm first
going to call on Mr. Einer Kesten, and ask Mr. Rosenberg and
Mr. Gladden to agree that we take the deposition of Mr. Kesten,
separate and apart from his wife.
MR. ROSENBERG: I would respectfully refuse
to separate them. They're both as much parties here as is
Arthur Kesten, whom I did not know would be present. We would
not agree to separate them.
MR. RODGERS: And, on what basis is this,
Mr. Rosenberg?
MR. ROSENBERG: Well, they're just as much
r-----------
•
I •
•
MR. ROSENBERG: (Continued) parties ---
parties are not separated. They're not witnesses. They're
parties involved here. Since the will left everything, for
example, to both of them, they're both parties and I would not
agree to separate parties from any deposition •
MR. RODGERS: In the will, I believe that
Mr. Einer Kesten is named as the Executor.
MR. · ROSENBERG: However, the heirs, under
the second will were Pauline and Einer Kesten.
MR. ELLIS : You mean, the codicil to
the will, Mr. Rosenberg; not th~ second will?
MR. ROSENBERG: Yes.
I''
MR. RODGERS: At any rate, you are
telling your clients not to separate, or to give their testimony
separately; is that correct?
MR. ROSENBERG: Correct •
~ ~ --~ ~ ----
2
•
I
I
!
I •
I
•
I
EINER KESTEN, having been duly s~orn, testifies as follows:
Direct-examination by MR. RODGERS:
Q Mr. Kesten, you have a right to read this deposition and
check it before you sign it and before it's filed, or
you may waive this right; and, I'll ask you to consult
your attorney and tell us whether you to waive it or not.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
' '
(Witness consults with attorney)
,, MR. ROSENBERG: W'e'll waive the right to
sign it.
Is that correct, Mr. Kesten?
In other words, this -could be used in Court?
MR. ROSENBERG: Yes; that·r s correct •
I'm sorry. Are you agreeing to waive your right to read
and sign it?
No; I didn't say that.
MR. ROSENBERG: All right; then, we'll ask
that it be typed and we have a chance to
read it.
Will you state your full name for the record?
Einer Kesten.
Where do you live?
124 Spring Drive.
Where is that located?
McMurray, Pa.
3
•
Q Is that in Washington County?
A Washington County.·
Q How long have you lived there?
A Ten years.
Q What is your business or occupation?
A Body repairman.
Q And, you have a family?
.A Correct.
Q And, is this your wife?
A My wife, Pauline.
Q Have you any children?
A Three; two girls and one boy.
Q
A
Q
And, what relation was the decedent, Elizabeth Catherine
Reichenbach to you?
She is my aunt.
How long have you been associated or known your aunt?
A Well, I would say until my memory would carry me through;
roughly until I was about four years or something like
that; she was always over at motherts and fatherts.
Q By mother's and father's, you mean your mother's .·and
father's?
A Yes; I can remember that high (indicating). If my memory
serves me correctly back to my younger years they were
over there quite frequently to visit.
Q How of'ten?
A This went on for years, my aunt and uncle visited my
father.
Q And, how old are you now, Mr. Kesten?
4
•
•
A Fifty years old.
Q And, during the time you knew your aunt, what was her
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
health?
What was her health?
Yes.
Very good, very good until her husband passed away.
And, about when was that?
May of t 68.
And then, did her health worsen?
Not necessarily.
Well, you say it was very good until her husband passed
away? Well, what happened after that?
A She was going to go into the hospital before her husband
passed away, and she put it off. This I knew even before
her husband passed away. Whether any other member of the
family lrnew it or not, I don't know; but I took a very
particular interest in my atmt.
Q Did you take more interest than any of your other brothers
and sisters?
A Yes, definitely; there was never cross words between any
part~ of the family.
No, in what respect did you pay more attention or take
more interest in your aunt then other members of the
family?
A If she needed something, I was there.
Q Can you give us some specific examples?
A If she needed help, in any way in particular or one way
5
•
Q
A
or another or to go some place, I would be there.
But can you give us a time and a place and an occasion on
which you did this?
To visit~ to visit one particular; the whole family, the
whole relationship, Christmas, New Years, East.er, we alwayf:
had the family reunion at my house an'd my aunt and the
whole family, most all of them were welcome there and
most of them came there on those holidays.
Q And, you had other brothers and sisters; is that right?
A Correct.
Q And, did your aunt and uncle also visit them during the
holidays?
A No.
Q Never did?
A If they did, they probably did very few times.
Q Now, outside of having your aunt and uncle with you on some
of these holidays in what other specific respects did you
pay more attention to her than your other brothers and
A
Q
sister$?
Because she was always good to me.
No; in what way other then having her and your uncle with
you on these holidays, what other ways did you pay
particular attention to her?
MR. ROSENBERG: Is this question directed
over a lifetime or when do you mean?
1\ffi. RODGERS: Well, he says ---well, you tell
me what ~ou mean when you say you always ---.
6
•
•
A She's a particular good aunt.
Q Tell me what you mean when you say you always paid more
attention to her then your other brothers and sisters,
You've told us that on holidays you always had your uncle
and aunt •.
If somebody needs me, when they call me on the phone
I 1 11 be there Johnny on the spot.
Q And, did your aunt do that?
A Occasionally she did; if she couldn't do it she got her
Q
A
Q
neighbor to call me and I personally would run over there.
And, on how many occasions did this happen?
Well, ·this ---when she started to feel a little bit bad
for her husband I took and run over there on a weekend.
This was ··in about 1968?
A Well, a little before that; several months before then we
visited ~hem maybe once out of a month.
Q You were in the habit of visiting about once a month?
A Correct.
Q And, then you got this one call on the weekend that you
A
Q
went over to see her?
Not necessarily one weekend; any time she would call me,
I would go •
Well, this was in 1968, right?
A This was before that.
Q Was her husband still living?
A Yes; her husband was still living. We had visited a short
time, I don't know the exact date, but this was a time
7
0
0
when he wasn't feeling good. She called us and we went
over there and he passed away a short time after that« Th s
was one of the occasions when she had called me.
Q All right. From the time she first called you, how often
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
then did she call you to come over and see her?
I went over there every weekend.
Beginning about when?
When my uncle was sick.
And, about when was that?
I would say a little before May, ·o·eginning of Ap.ril.
Of what year?
Of 1968.
Now, did she ever discuss with you the disposition of her
property?
Her property?
Yes.
No.
Never did?
It was none of my business. She didn't have no property.
I 1m talking now, of course, back around '68 or before or
after that time. Did she ever talk to you about leaving
you or leaving you and Arthur her estate after she passed
away?
Not at the particular time.
w·ell, at any time did she talk to you about that?
Not around that date; at· a later date she wanted ---.
When did she first discuss with you the disposition of her
8
A
property after her death?
You mean when her husband passed away?
When did she first discuss with you what she would do with
her property after she passed away?
A She didn't have no property. She lived in a couple of
rooms and when her husband got sick and passed away she
begged us to take her in.
Q Well, you had indicated a little while ago that at some-
time she had talked to you about leaving something to some·
one after she passed away. Is that true or not?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
This was a long time later she come up with the idea of
leaving something to somebody.
When was the first time she discussed with you about
leaving something to somebody; about when?
I would say around February; let's see---.
What year?
She had moved in with us.
That was in '69?
68; this was before '69.
She had moved in with you about February of '68; is that
right?
February, 1 68.
MR. ROSENBERG: Wait a minute~---there's no
use getting an incorrect record here.
A You asked me when she talked to me.
9
-.
MR. RODGERS: I'm going to ask Mr. Kesten to
testify.
MR. ROSENBERG: All right.
rm. RODGERS: Now, is there anything you want
to correct so far;· Mr. Kesten?
MR. ROSENBERG: First of all be should be showl
the wills so he bas an idea when the various
wills were drawn so tba~ you get correct
testimony here in some ·sequence.
MR. RODGERS: Now, Mr. Rosenberg, I'm going to
object to you giving your client certain
' ' indications here.
Q Now, I'm asking you now, is there anything that you've
testified to so far that you want to change?
A Those last two clauses about dates, about when she's moving
in with me.
Q What <fo·'you want to change?
A I don't have the exact date.
MR. ROSENBERG: Let the record show ---
MR. RODGERS: I'm going to object to Mr.
Rosenberg deliberately attempting to coach his
witness here.
10
•
11
MR. ROSENBERG: Let the record show that
I have the wills out, and that I'm letting
Mr. ---.
MR. RODGERS: The record should show that Mr. I
Rosenberg has taken from his file purported
copies of-the will$,after his client has now . explained that he wants to change his
testimony.
MR. ROSENBERG: If you get smart about this
thing, we can easj_ly walk out of here. We're
attempting to give you ---•
MR. RODGERS: Let me conduct the examination.
MR. ROSENBERG: All right. If you deliberatel~
try to mix him up, I 1 m not going to stand for
it. I don't like the way you're questioning;
the man certainly wants to tell you everything
MR. RODGERS: I just asked him to correct the
record. You're trying to ---.
MR. ROSENBERG: I see there's nothing wrong
with the record.
MR. RODGERS: If there is anything you want to
show him after I have concluded my examination
you are welcome to do it.
•
MR. ROSENBERG: All right; let's proceed from
the beginning. I am not ag.reeing t bat there
is anything wrong in the record~ If you ask
the questions fairl~ to him and give him a
chance, I'm sure he will do his best,
~JR. RODGERS: All right.. I just asked him wha
he wants to change.
A You got me mixed up between a date and you asking me about
her asking me about some ·--her belongings, her property.
Q Is there anything you want to change so far?
A This is the date •
. ~ All right; nowJ how do you want to change it?
MR. ROSENBERG: Will you please ask him simple
questions and you will get straight forward
answers. Let's go ahead..
MR. RODGERS: Are you saying tbat some of thesE
questions are not simple?
MR. ROSENBERG!: I 1m saying that I'm not sure
that you brought out the sequence as it was;
however, I don't want to make a big thing out
of this. Let's take our time and ask him what
you want, and he'll do his best.
12
Q Now, let's go back for a minute, Mr. Kesten. I asked you
when your aunt first discussed with you leaving her proper~y
to someone after she had passed away. And, what is your I
A
Q
recollection, what is your best.recollection now, as to
when she first talked to you about leaving or willing her
property to anyone?
MR. ROSENBERG: And, if you don't know; if you' Ire
not sure, you can say that.
As far as dates and. that, I can't say; no.
Well, you said a little while ago there was something you
wanted to correct.
A You had me mixed up as to a date when she was moving in and
to when she said she was going to give me her property and
stuff like that. This is what you had me mixed up about.
Now, when she ---.
Q Now, what did I tell you that mixed you up? Vlhat question
mixed you up?
A The i.dea of her giving me her property. She doesn't have
any property.
Q Well, however you want to put it; leaving anything to you.
~~en ---do you remember when she first discussed that?
Leaving anything to you or to anybody?
A When?
• Q Yes; abbut··when?·;·
A I'd say in the warm months of '68.
Q The warm months of '68?
A That's correct.
Q Now, at that time had she moved in with you and your wife?
A She had moved in around ---I think it was February of
1 68.
13
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Q February of 1 68? rms. KESTEN: That was '69.
A 169, I'm sorry.
Q Let the record show that Mrs. Kesten suggested February
'69 and you now agree that she moved in then in February
of'69; is that right? Just to your best recollection; you
can be in error or your wife can be in error.
A I'm no quiz kid on remembering dates; I don't mark dates
down.
Q But, let's see if we can get at it this way. When she firf t
talked to you, when your aunt first talked to you about
leaving anything to anyone,was that before or after she hac
moved in with you?
A
Q
After she had moved in.
It was after she had moved in?
A Yes.
Q And, what had she told you ---now, just a minute, please.
MR. ROSENBERG: All right; let me say this.
There are wills of record here; and Mr. Rodger~~
knows and I know that there are wills made-. I
see nothing wrong with the man having the
opportunity to se~ the wills and to know the
,
dates when she drew wills.
MR~'RODGERS: Mr. Rosenberg, I have already
told you if there is anything you want to do
to rehabilitate after I have finished the
deposition, you're welcome to do it.
14
~--------~----------------,
MR. ROSENBERG! Whether you like it or not,
since the wills are part of the record and sin<e
you want to get an accurate record, I want him
to see and to know the dates,·\'Vhen the will and
' t
the codicil to the will vvere drawn.
MR. RODGERS: The record will show that Mr.
Rosenberg hasJ up to this latest testimony,
produced from his file a record of what purpor1 s
to be the will and codicil.
lVIR. ROSENBERG: Right •
15
MR. RODGERS: In order to show that to his client,
Mr. Kesten.
MR. ROSENBERG: Right; I agree. The first wilJ
is dated June 30th of 1968; the codicil is
dated June 6th of '69.
Q All rightJ Mr. Kesten, are you ready to proceedi
A Yes.
Q Nm'V, after having examined the will and codicil that IVIr.
Rosenberg showed you, I'm going to again ask you this.
When did your aunt first discuss with you leaving anything
to you or anyone? Was it before or after she had moved
in with you about February of '69?
A She asked to see an attorney.
Q Now, was this before or after she had moved i.n with you
in February of '69?
0
A It was after, I would say.
Q Afterwards?
A After she moved in.
Q All right•. What did she say along these lines after she
had moved in with you? What did she say to you?
A V~at did she say toward what?
Q About leaving something to you or anyone.
A Well, she asked for an attorney.
Q All right; and about when was this? Do you remember?
A I can't give you the exact date.
Q How long had she been living with you at that time, you ana
your wife?
A About five months I would say, somewhere around in that
period of time.
Q Around June of '69?
A Yes.
Q Now, this was the first time she ever discussed with you
A
Q
A
leaving anything to you or Arthur or anyone; is that right
She asked for an attorney.
Did she tell you what she wanted to see an attorney about?
She asked me if I knew of an attorney and I told her I
had business with one attorney and I said, nwhy don't you
get your own attorney?". She asked me if I would take her
over to my attorney.
Q And who was your attorney?
A Milton Rosenberg.
Q Well, had she mentioned to you why she wanted to see your
attorney?
16
A She wanted to do something toward what she had, her saving •
Q She told you this?
A Yeah; that's right.
Q And, did she tell you at that time what she had in the way
of savings?
A No, I didn't know what she had; that wasn't none of my
business.
Q Did you have any idea in June of 1 69 what she had in the
way of savings?
A No.
Q You said, you told her, you suggested to her that she shou d
g~ to her attorney; is that right?
A She said she knew of no attorney.
Q Well, had you told her she should go to her attorney?
A I asked if she wants to go to an attorney, to go to her
own attorney.
Q And, she told you then that she had not had an attorney; i
that right?
A Well, at the time ---her living over with us, whether she
knew of one right handy or not, whether her husband had th
knowledge of an attorney; she didn't have the knowledge, . .
I don't know. But, she asked, she specified the idea of
me taking her over to see Milton Rosenberg.
Q ~Who was your attorney; is that right?
A Well, I knew Mr. Rosenberg~
Q Well, was he your attorney?
A Well,, on one· .om~.·asi,on-, .I would say, yeah; he drew up some
17
papers for me. This is the closest one.
Q I understood you to say you were on friendly relations
with your aunt. Did you ever know, did she ever mention to
you that she had an attorney in the Pittsburgh area where
she lived?
A She never told me nothing about her attorney.
Q Well, did you know whether she had an attorney in the
Pittsburgh area?
A She didn't ask me. I mean, she asked me to take her to my
attorney and I told her to go to her attorney and she told
me she didn't have any.
Q W'ell, did you know of any attorney that she had had around
the Pittsburgh area?
A Not to my knowledge.
~ So then, what did you do then after she asked you ---that
she wanted to see an attorney? Vlhat did you do?
A She asked me to take her to an attorney.
Q Well, did you take her?
A I called and made an appointment and took her over there.
Q And, where did you take her?
A
Q
A
Q
To the second floor, Milton Rosenberg's office.
\¥here was this?
In .F·in:L~jy.i1U:e •.
And, what was the address there; do you remember?
MR~ ROSENBERG: Well, it's just ~~in Stree.
Q Main Street, FinTey:vilTe...... Now, this .was in June of '69;
is that right?
18
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A No, I wouldn't say it was June of 1 69; no, I'm sorry. I
didn't say---you're the one that sa.id, '•June of '69n.
Q Well, what date do you say it was?
.A I didn't specify the date •
Q Well, I'm asking you~ 'tWhat date was it?".
A Well, here they are right here. (Indicating)
Q What date is it?
MR. ROSENBERG: You may look at them, the
will and the codicil.
19
A June 20th is marked on the bottom of this here. (Indicati g)
MR. ROSENBERG: Of what year?
A Of 1968.
MR. ROSENBERG: And, what is the second one?
A The second one here is June of 1 69.
r~. ROSENBERG: All right; now, so ---•
~m. RODGERS: All right; now, wait a minute,
Mr. Rosenberg ---•
A I'm looking at the papers here.
1m. ROSENBERG: Go ahead.
Q All right; now, are you telling us now that you took your
aunt over there first in June of '68?
A I took her over there?
Q Yes.
A She asked to go over and I drove her over there.
•
I I
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Q Was that in June of 1968? After looking at the will are
you satisfied now-· that that was June of '68?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
This is the date that is marked on the w::t]l. here.
Are you satisfied personally that that was the date?
To me it doesn't matter. Mr. Rosenberg has records in his
office that when she was there.
But, you say you don't know when the dates were?
I don't carry a notebook around in my hand for me to answe~
a question like this here,
Well, if you don't know, please tell us.
I don't know the exact date. Here is the stuff.right in
front of me here; here's the will and the codicil.
Vlhenever you took her over, whenever it was, did she discuf s
with you what she wanted to do with her property?
She said she wanted to assign stuff over to parties; and I
said, "W'ell, look; you 1::J;e going--t.o the·office.n
Q Did she say what parties?
A Well, she mentioned my brother and myself, yes,
Q That she was goinB to leave everything equally to both of
you; is that right?
A Well, this I didn't know;.but this is what she wanted to
draw up a will for •
She. mentioned your two brothers~
elsef . A No, just a broth~r.
Did she mention anybody
Q She mentioned, I mean the two of you. Did she mention
anybody·else?
A Well, probably Norma and Arthur, the husband and wife~
20
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2:1
Q Who are they?
A I~ wife is Pauline and Norma is his wife.
Q But, she didn't mention any other brother or sister or
your father, for example?
A No.
Q And, at that time, she· was living w.ith you. You do remember
that?
Yes.
MR. ROSENBERG: ~Vhich .time.are we speaking of?
Q The first time J.OU went ov,er ---?
A Yes.
.. • l
MR •. ROSENBERG: Are you speaking of June of 1 6E?
MR. RODGERS: All right. Now, 1Y1r. Rosenberg,
please, will you let him testify?
MR. ROSENBERG: I certainly will; but you,
yourself, have said and it's been on this
record that she moved in in February of '69.
I don't want to confuse the record and it's
already of record when she moved in. Now, I
don't know whether he's mixing the two wills UI;
by date ---•
That's what Itm doing.
MR. ROSENBERG: ---and I would want, at least
to get a clear record.
<D
Q _Againl Mr. K~sten, I'm asking you to take your time. Now,
. is there anything ,that you have testified to so far that ycu
feel is incorrect and that you would want to reconsider?
A According to the dates that when she had moved with us or
t
something like that there, no; I don't keep a notebook in
my pocket; I can't answer you with exact dates.
Q So that so far you, this is what you want to put on the
record, so far as to whether or not Mrs. Reickenbach
was living with you at the time you first went to see
Attorney Milton Rosenberg. Your best recollection is that
she was; is that right? Or are you saying now you don't
know?
A She was living with us---, let's see---•
MR. ROSENBERG: Well, if you don't remember,
just tell us.
A No_, I don't remember.
Q Now, I think you said a little while ago that when she
talked about leaving something she actually didn't have
any property; is that right? When she came to live with ycu
she didn't have any property?
A To my knowledge, she didn't own a house.
Q Did she have any property other than a house?
A You mean toward what, money or something?
Q Any kind of property, money or bonds or ---•
A I suppose she did; sure, she had her bankbooks; I never
seen her bankbooks.
22
Q When was the first time you ever saw her bankbooks?
A She asked me to take her over to the bank. That was the
first time I ever seen it.
Q. When was that?
A I can't give you any exact date on that either. It would
be marked on the bankbook.
Q. Well, was it before or after she made the will or the
codicil?
MR. ROSENBERG: If you know the date.
A No; I don't know; this I don't know.
Q T asked a little while ago if she had discussed leaving
any property; and you said she had no property to leave.
Now, what did you mean by that?
23
A Property to me is a piece of property, a house and propertj.
Q Real estate.
A Well, if that is what you mean, real estate, all right.
Q But, you knew when you went to get ~he will or codicil madE
that she did have money in the bank; didn't you?
A Yeah; she said she had some money, yeah.
Q When did she tell you about the money in the bank? Was
this after she had moved in with you or before?
A No; it was after she h~d moved in.
Q After she had moved in. And, what bank or banks did she
tell you she had money in?
A She had money in a couple banks.
Q Did she mention the banks' names?
A I believe she said PNB, and I think the other one was
the Iron and Glass.
Q Did she mention any others?
A No; she had a couple of bankbooks, that's all that I know;
and she asked me to drive her to the bank.
Q Which bank did she ask you to drive her to?
A To her bank.
Q Which one was that?
A Pittsburgh National Bank.
Q And, what office was that?
A The one at Greentree.
Q Did she have an account in any other PNB office?
A Not that I know of.
Q Did you drive her to any bank other than the PNB office in
Greentree?
A Let's see
I'
•
MR. ROSENBERG: Well, while he 1 s thinking e.
moment, I've been pretty liberal with the reco~d
and i will be liberal but the purpose of the
deposition was to ---relating to execution
. of an alleged codicil to the TXlst v,~ill and
Testament of EQizabeth Catherine Reickenbach,
said codicil being dated ~une 6, 1 69 and all
matters'.relevant to the· caveat filed by
Arthur Kesten. This is what you asked for.
24
WIR. RODGERS: Yes; and. that caveat among other
things raises the question of testamentaty~·cap city
and whether she knew what
property she had, and so on.
1m. ROSENBERG: Well, where is the caveat;
let's see.
MR. RODGERS: Well, the original, of course, is
filed.
MR. ROSENBERG: Right. Where is the caveat? Dp
you have a copy?
MR. RODGERS: Yes. Would you read the question
back, please? (Addressl ng Stenographer)
MR. ROSENBERG: What I'm saying is that you
limited yourself in the Notice of Deposition
to take testimony relative to the execution of
the codicil. I'm willing to be reasonable abou~
it; but not to have you go into great detail
25
about things that are beyond the scope of the
request for taking the deposition. The caveat ·--.
MR. RODGERS: It says: nThe codicil and
all matters relevant to the caveat,tt; and the
caveat raises the question and issue of
testamentary capacity and undue influence;
testamentary capacity, among other things invollre
the Testatrix's knowledge of her property and
what property she. had at the time the will was
made.
•
MR. ROSENBERG: Well t the caveat just ··constant: y
in every paragraph talks about the Will~
MR. RODGERS: If these matters are not relevan.,
you may move to strike them, Mr~ Rosenberg, at
the appropriate timew Could we have the last
question read. (Addressing stenographer)
Q Did you drive her to any other bank than the PNB office
in Greentree?
A To her two banks; I don't recall the places where they are
at.
Q W'ell, you mentioned PNB at Greentree. What's the other
one that ---?
A PNB, or is that the one, the Iron and Glass. I know she
had two books; one was at PNB and one was the Iron and
Glass. I know the one address was at Greentree Road there,
Q How about the Iron and Glass? Did you take her to that?
A The Iron and Glass, I can't think back to even where it is
located now.
Well, at the PNB office, did you go in with her?
MR. ROSENBERG: All right; just a minute now .•
Vihether right or wrong, and I may be wrong,
if I'm wrong the Court will direct me to do it
and I will repro·duce the witness; as of this
time I will give you anything you want on what
you requested, but I will direct the witness
I
not to answer anything about the banks. I v~ill brin,~
him back.
MR. RODGERS: Well, we're going to insist upon that.
MR. RpSENBERG: I will. bring him baclq I will not
let you go into anything further. You may ask what
you want on the, actually you don't say "willn, but
I think -it is proper, the will. and the codicil.
WIR. RODGERS: And you're eliminating any reference
to the caveat and undue influence and testamentary
capacity; is that rif~t; even though it is included
in the Notice of Deposition?
MR. ROSENBERG: Well, it says ---•
MR. RODGERS: '~11 matters relevant to the caveat. tt
MR. ROSEl'fBJ<:::RG: rt All matters relevant to the
caveat't 1 and there is nothing in the caveat that I
see that opens it up to the extent that you're going
into.
MR. RODGERS: Are you directing the wit ness not to
answer any question?
MR. ROSENBERG: I'm directing him not to answer
except matters concerning the will and testamentary
capacity and so forth.
Q All right. I~. Kesten, at the time this will was executed
'
in June of 1968, where was this done?
A You mean, when this was made out?
Q Yeah.
2:7
A It was made out in his office• in Finleyville.
Q And, who was present?
A Elizabeth, my aunt.
Q Were you present?
A Yeah; I was there. I told her to go in and she insisted on
my wife and I both going in.
Q Were you present when she instructed Mr. Rosenberg to draw
up the "Will?
A Yes.
Q And, what did she tell Mr. Rosenberg to do so. far as her
estate was concerned in June of 1 68?
A She asked that her belongings such as you says there, such
as property or money or whatever she haq to sign it over.
Q Sign it over to whom?
A Well, she mentioned Arthur and Einer.
Q Did she. at that time tell Mr. Rosenberg what property she
had whether in the way of bank accounts or whatever?
A There was nothing brought up as to her personal belongings
money or anything; there was nothing mentioned there
towards a dollar. I mean, she came in there with the
purpose of drawing up a will, and that's what she did.
Q She did not tell Mr. Rosenberg anything about what she
had in the way of bank accounts or other property; is that
A right?
A Not to my knowledge. She didn't say anything about her
bank accounts or money or anything.
Q Were you present the entire time Mr. Rosenberg and TVIrs.
28
--------------------------,
Reichenbach were consulting?
A Yeah; nothing was brought up.
Q Was any mention made of your father as a possible bene-
ficiary?
A No; just Arthur and I, that's all.
Q Any .of the brothers and sisters except you and Arthur?
A No.
Q Did she explain why she had singled you and Arthur out as
beneficiary?
A I don't necessarily know why she had fingered us out,
Arthur and I.
Q' Did she say?
A She asked to go over to the attorney and she told me to
call Arthur; and I had called Arthur and she told Arthur
she was going to go to an attorney.
Q Was Arthur also present?
A No.
Q Then, as far as you lrnow, you don't know what property she
had at all when she made this Will in June of '68?
A No; it was not my business; it was hers.
Q From where did you go to Mr. Rosenberg's office? Was this
from your home or from her home in Pittsburgh?
A I drove. her from my place.
Q From your place?
A Yes.
Q Now, who else was present besides you and Mr. Rosenberg
and your aunt and your wife at the time she signed this
Will?
29
•
A She signed that when she signed the will. This was signed
in front of witnesses.
Q Well, were they present in r.nr. Rosenberg's office?
A No; my aunt give these personally to the witnesses and the~
had signed them.
Q Well, where did your aunt sign the will?
A My aunt signed at a neighbor of hers; that ·was Mrs. Capcha< k
and the other one ---thatts where she lived, and she aske<
Mrs. Capchack to sign ·it.
Q Were you present when Mrs. Capchack signed it?
A She asked met o go up along with her~
Q And, this was· ~t h~r home, wher~?
A This was the house in b~ck of hers; at Mrs. Capchack's homE.
Q Where?
A In Hazelwood.
Q Well, I thought you said that she was living with you at
the time? ·; Is that not right·
A Wait a minute, now. I took her up tbere to this lady's
house and she signed it; she was a witness.
Q ~~ere did your aunt sign this will of June of 1 68? Did she
sign it in Mr. Rosenberg's office or did she sign it in
Mrs. Capchack' s home or where?
A Mr. Rosenberg sent my aunt the copies of these at my
place.
Q Sent what?
A Mr. Rosenberg sent these copies to my place.
Q By the copies, you mean the original will or what?
A Yes; Mrs. Rosen berg sent them to my address to Elizabeth
r:.e1cnenoacn, yean.
30
I
(I
Q And then, what did you do with them?
A I didn't do anything with them; she kept them. That was
her property; she paid for them.
Q Do you have the original Will that your aunt signed?
A Do I? Yeah.
Did you have it? When Mr. Rosenberg mailed it to you, the
original Will?
A It's in the file.
Q Did Mr. Rosenberg mail the original Will to you about June
of 1968?
A
Q
A
Q
The original?
Yes.
How many copies would be made up?
Well, there's just one original as I understand it. Now,
did you have the original Will mailed to you by Mr.
Rosenberg?
A It was sent to my address; yeah.
Q A'\1 that time, your aunt had not signed it; is that right?
A She had give it to the parties to sign though; but I .
can't give you the exact dates.
Q Had your aunt signed it?
A She signed it; the witness signed.
Q Where did she sign it? Where did your aunt sign it?
A In front of the witnesses.
Q Where was that?
A One was at Mrs. Capchack's house in Hazelwood.
Q And, where was the other one?
A The other one at the time ---•
31
•
•
A
Q
MR. ROSENBERG: Now, when you say, ttthe other
onen, you mean the codicil, JYI:r. Rodgers?
MR. RODGERS: No, the two witnesses to the wil~;
there's a William and an Ann Capchack.
Oh, that's husband and wife; they were present there.
Now, who took your aunt to the Capchack home?
A As usual, I take them everywhere.
Q You had driven your aunt from your home to the Capchack
home; is that right?
A Yeah; I always do. Every week, this is a regular thing;
even when my uncle was sick.
MRS. KESTEN: She wasn,'.t living there then.
MR. RODGERS: Please, ll.frs. Kesten •
}mR. ROSENBERG: It does appear of record, of
course, earlier in the testimon~ ---•
MR. RODGERS: You have reminded him trxee
times, Mr. Rosenberg.
A I don't carry a notebook around, though. A lady gets
down on her hands and knees and begs you ---•
MRS. KESTEN: I'm sure he doesn't understand
the question.
No, I don't; I mean this has gQt· me all mixed up.
MR. ROSENBERG: He asked you whether your aunt
Vl7as still living in Hazelwood at the. time that
this first. one was drawn. It 1 s that simple.
_ ___l_L__ _________ ~----------··--·--·--
32
A Well, yeah; you got me all mixed up on stuff like this
here. Sure she has to be living there, at Hazelwood; yes.
Q Was this Will of June t6B, was that mailed to your address
in Peters Township by Mr. Rosenberg's office?
A Mr •. Rosenberg sent it out.
Q Was any of it signed at that time, at the time you got it
through the mail from Mr. Rosenberg?
A It was signed with the witnesses. Mrs. Elizabeth
Reichenbach did her necessary signing with 1ilir. Rosenberg.
r.ms. KESTEN: No, she didn't.
MR. RODGERS: Pleaset
A As to whether a receipt made out to the amount of money
that· she had paid to make her will; and Mr. Rosenberg
had sent this out to my address under her name.
Q All right. Now, going back to the visit to Mr. Rosenberg'.
office for the Will. Do I take it then that neither
Mr. nor Mrs.Capchack·were present in Mr. Rosenberg's officE?
A They weren't in the office; no.
Q But, you were present during the whole time and after she
told Mr. Rosenberg she wanted to leave her property to you
and to Arthur., what did Mr. Rosenberg do? Did he draw
up the Will right away?
A He drawed her Will according to her words.
Q But, did he draw it up right that particular evening
or afternoon?
A He wrote it down in shorthand or whatever he did.
33
Q But he didn't have it typed up?
A It would be typed up and sent; he said he would send it.
Q Now, you mentioned your aunt paid him something; is that
right?
A Whatever the necessary fee is for making a will.
Q At that time when you and your wife were present;' is that
right?
A Yeah.
Q Now, this would have been a few days before June 20, 1968;
is that right?
A vr.hatever the date says.
Q Was this before; this would be a few days before that date
isn't that right?
A It has to be a few days before that date to be signed
by the witnesses or something.
Q All right. Then, what did you do? You say now that Mrs.
Reichenbach wasn't living with you. Now, had you picked
up your aunt at her home in Pittsburgh and driven her to
Mr. Rosenberg's office in Finleyville?
A My aunt was living, if I recall at the time ---.
Q Now, wait a minute. I We can t have it both wqvs. In June
of 1 68, you tell me that your aunt wasn't yet living with
you. Now, I'm asking you ---•
A I'm not sure about the date. In February of 1 69; somethint
like that there; or it could have been late in 1 68. I'm
not too sure of the dates but I think it was in February
of 1 69; I'm pretty sure ot it. -~ilY uncle passed away in
34
r 68; that was in May, when he had passed away. Naturally
with her living there by herself---.
Q Now, I'm going back again and ask you, how did your aunt
get from her home in Pittsburgh to Mr. Rosenberg's office
in Finleyville in June of '68; if you remember?
A I drove her there.
Q You went out to Pittsburgh and picked her up and drove
her to Finleyville?
A No; she was at my place.
Q Well, how did she get to your place?
35
A I picked her up as usual. Wherever she wanted to go I took hEr.
Q Where did you pick her up?
A She was at my house,
Q She was at your house?
A She was at my house.
Q And then, after you got finished with Mr, Rosenberg, where
did you take your aunt?
A Back to my place.
Q And then, a few days later, you got this Will through the
mail; is that right; which wasn't signed?
A To whatever days it takes to send through the mail; yeah,
Q Well, then, how did you'decide to get Mr. and Mrs, Capchac
to witness the Will?
~ A \~enever she went o~er there to visit.
Q When was that?
A She asked to go over.to see her neighbors; I don't know
the date.
Q She just happened to take her Will along?
A She asked to take a ride over there to see her neighbor,
rJirs. Capchack.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
.A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
How many days after you had gotten the will through the
mail did you take a ride over?
I don't recall the date.
Vfell, was it a day or two or a week or what?
I don't recall the days.
You were in no particular hurry to get the will executed?
It could have been a month, no; it could have been a month
In other words, you were in no particular hurry to get the
will signed?
1To •
You had neighbors who could have witnessed it while your
aunt was there?
Yeah, I had neighbors and I could have run her down to a
notary public, I guess; it would have been closer.
You say your aunt asked that these people be witnesses or
how did you decide that she ---?
She wanted to go over to see Mrs. Capchack.
Q Well, how ---?
A That is a neighbor; in fact she's the landlord to the houst
she was living in, that she vJas living in.
36
Q Why did you decide to brj_ng the will along? I assume that you--,
A She did it; it was her will, not mine. I· didn't have it
in my possession; she had her own personal box for her
own personal belongings; it's her own belongings.
~
I ' ' 37 1--------~--------------------------~-------· ----------~~
Q And, at the time she signed this will in June of 1 68, she
indicated this is the l~Y she wanted her property left; is
that right?
A When it was signed ---• .. Q Is that right?
A
Q
Well, there was a witness there; she was there with the
witness and I was standing there with Mrs. Capchack in
the kit chen.
What did she say? What did your aunt say at that time?
A She showed her that she had a will.
Q Did she say anything else?
A No; she said, ttwj_ll you sign this as a VJi tness; this is
Q
A
Q
mine. Do you want to read it?". Mrs. Capchack said, "No,
it's not necessary that I read it".
Now, when she asked Mrs. Capchack to sign the wil~ this
was in the kitchen of the Capchack home; is that right?
Yes.
Was her husband present; Mrs. Capchack's husband present?
A She had called him.
Q When did she call him?
A
Q
A
Well, at the time of the signing there.
Did she call him j_n before or after she signed?
He was working in the yard. Well, as soon as we walked in
the door, my aunt told Mrs. Capchack and Mrs. Capchack
hollered out the door for her husband to come in; he was
working out in the yard; he had a greenhouse.
Q So all three of you, your aunt and the two Capchack's
were present in the kitchen; is that right?
<0
A Yeah.
Q Now,.did your aunt sign the Will at that time in the
' < kitchen?
A It was all signed and witnessed right there with Mrs. ---.
Q Now, you say ttall signed". Are you including your aunt's
signature?
A All the signatures were on there. My aunt had tQ srgn.,
38
a will ---to my knowledge, according to wills and stuff, aw
and stuff, I don't know as far as my own, I don't know if I~
own is signed. I have a will drawed up.
Q I'm asking you if you remember. Do you remember whether
A
Q'
A
Q:
A
your aunt signed the Will at that time or not?
They picked up a pen; I don't know who did the writing;
they did the writing.
By tttheyn, who do you mean?
Mrs.Capchcckand himt the two of them.
Did you see your aunt do any writing?
No; all I know is she bad given them the papers, she give
them the paper and they ·signed their names and that \IIJas it
we went home. We stopped and said hello to another
neighbor.
Q And then, you say you brought your aunt back home to
Peters Township, where she was living; is that right?
A Yes; it's my place.
Q·. Now, did your aunt them further discuss with you the
disposition of her property?
MR. ROSENBERG: Do you understand what he is
---------------------
saying.
MRS. KESTEN: I don't think he does know.
'Q ·Incidentally, Mr. Kesten, how much education have-ybu had?
A \vell, I went through school.
Q Well, through high school, or what? Did you graduate from
high school?
MRS . KESTEN: No, he didn't.
~
39
A Seventh grade or sixth grade, or whatever it was at that time.
<0
Q I guess it would be considered fifth, sixth grade, whatever
it might be. The last school I went to was at Knoxville
Junior High School; what grade is the junior high school?
Q How about your aunt; how far did she get in school?
A How far?
Q Yes.
A I don't know; I,-think she had start~d.working when she was
quite young; I would say at the age of sixteen.
Q Was she able to read?
A
Q
A
Read? . '
Yes.
Read and write; she had a good sound mind, I'll tell you
that.
Q Could she read and write English?
A
Q
English? Sure.
But, you don't know how much education she had; is that
correct?
A She went to work; I think she was sixteen years old, so
she went through school, whatever ---she was of age to
get out of school. I think that is when she went·to work.
~-----------~-----------------------------------------------------------------------.
• I
I.
i
I
I
!
Q Where was this; this country or abroad?
A No, I think shewent to work in a high school, in a
cafeteria.
Q Where; in this country?
A Someplace in her neighborhood; yeah. I think it was
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Oliver High or whatever it was. I mean, those things ther~
way back when, remembering my aunt about things like this
here from stories just sitting and talking to my aunt and
uncle or something like that through life; why~this was on
of her jobs; she did that.
Now, getting on to the matter that I was asking you about.
When did your aunt next talk to you a bout her will or a bou-t
leaving her property or savings account to anyone?
When did she next talk to me about it?
Yes, after this will in June of 1 68?
She got up in arms a half dozen times about, she's not
satisfied the way the family was treati~g her during the
• 1 r ,' period of time she was living with us,
And did she mention what she was dissatisfied with?
Yeah; about my mother and father, not my mother, I meant . .
my father, or my brother or any of the family coming to
visit her; nobody would come to visit her. Anytime somebocy
40
would come to visit her is when she was laying on her back or
in the hospital. Yeah, she mentioned to me a lot of times.
I called up but it didn't do no good, I guess.
Q Who did you call?
A My own father, and that is my father's sister; brotlier· and•
sister.
'Q And, what did you tell your father?
A I asked him if he could come out to visit. I said, "Liz
asked and begged for company at timesn. I said, nshe'd
like to see some of the family and that; but nobody, she
says nobody comes to see her.~
Q Well, what did your father say?
A He said, '*p 11 make it out there sometime".
Q Did he ever .come.out?
A If I would go in to pick him out once in a while, yes; the
usual occasion on Sunday afternoon or something, I'd get
the family, bring the family out on a Sunday afternoon.
Q And, what about Arthur? Did you call him?
41
A Every time my aunt went to the hospital or was sick, I calJ ed
he, my brother, or left word with his son.
Q-No; I'm talking about your aunt complaining when she was
living at home?
A I called and I told him that she wasn't getting any
company; that's right.
Q About how many times did you call him?
A Roughly speaking, a couple times a week or so when I would
ordinarily call the family.
A
Would you say a couple times a week?
When nobody would call out at the house, I would let them
know. Like a big foo~, I guess, let them know; they don't
want to bother chasing out to visit,
Q Well, how many times approximately did you call your
brother, Arthur?
A Couple times a weeki 'his son was living right in the house
Q Would he ever come out?
A On rare occasions; yeah, rare occasions. I would say once
out of the summer months she wasn't in the hospital, he cope
out to visit her one time; that's when she wasn't in the
hospital.
Q Which was the summer of 1 68?
A When she was out my place.
Q Was that about the summer of 1 68?
A No; t 69.
Q Summer of '69?
A She was living at my place.
Q And, did you actually talk to Arthur or to his son?
A Well, I talked to his daughter-in-law. I told her the
one time; my wife had talked to her when we took her to thE
hospital 6:00 o'clock that morning. This was the one time,
we called. Well, they came out to visit us about 8:00
o'clock that evening; this was an emergency. They came
out to visit then.
Q Did you ever talk to Arthur himself?
A To whoever would answer the phone; I called Norma, whoever
was home.
Q Do you ever recall specifically talking to Arthur and sayir.g
ttAunt is unhappy"?
A That's right; I tolCJ. Norma; I told my father. I said,
rtLizzy is real perturbed that she is not getting company;
she wants company, the family to come out and see her;
she's real upset about not getting company. tr
42
Q Did you tell this to Arthur?
A Yes, sir; I told it to Arthur, I told it to Norma, I
told it to the whole family; I did, most certainly.
Q And, you remember Arthur came out once?
A One time during the summer months. This is only one time
that she wasr1t· m the hospital to visit one time out of the
summer; other times maybe when she was in the hospital.
This is the one time that she went to the hospital, they
came out that evening. That was the second time shew as ir
the hospital though, She was in the hospital quite a few
times.
Q When was the first time she was in the hospital?
A When?
Q Yes.
A Shortly before she had moyed out to my place in the Home~
stead Hospital, I had her. That's when I took her to that
hospital,
Q That was shortly before she moved to your place?
A To my place, that's right.
Q And then, the second time was when?
A I think that was around in May.
Q
A
Do you remember again what year?
May of '69; she was living with me,
Q Vfhat hospital was that?
A \~rashington• Washington Hospital.
Q And, what was wrong with your aunt at this time?
A · Well., she had her breast removed. The whole family knev~
it; everybody knew it.
43
Q Did she have to take drugs or anything, pills?
A . Just the ordinary pills. No, she didn't take drugs, no.
Q Vi'ho was her physician?
A She had a Homestead doctor; we tried to get one, we rushed
her into the hospital. I don't recall his name.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Do you have a family doctor?
Well, yeah; we tried to get the family doctor.
\Vho was the family doctor?
I don't recall the name, but ---•
Where did he live? Where did he have his office?
A Well, he was out in Homestead.
Q In Homestead?
44
A Homestead. My wife could give the name if you let her say it.
but, we tried calling him. I went up to the neighbor and
back. I sat there for one hour and a half and I tried to
get the family doctor.
Q When was this?
A This is when she took sick there; and her neighbor called
Q
A
Q
A
me and told me. I 1d usually visit her every weekend; we
would pick her up and take her back and forth ever since,
well ---before that I didn't have to go out so often.
Do you remember any of the doctors who took care of your
aunt?
Well, when she had moved to my place then we had switched
her over to a Doctor Whalen.
In Peters Township?
In Peters Township. Cause it was too far for me to chase
back and forth to Homestead to take her to the hospital• tle
hospital and doctor.
Well, I asked you a little while ago when your aunt next
talked to you a bout her Will or leaving her cash or saving:
account or other property. And, you've indicated that
she was unhappy. Now, what further did she say about this
matter of her Will?
A She was upset about the family not coming to see her and
she had m~ntioned abou~ taking Arthur off her Will.
Q Wben did she first mention this?
A This.-w~s in the warm months; I think it was the second time
she was in the hospital. She wasn't getting visits or
wasn't getting the family to see her and she didn't feel
right. She says ---•
Q This was about what, May of 1 69?
A Right after the second time she was in the hospital.
Q Where did she talk to you about this; at the hospital or
at your home?
A Well, she talked to me both places about it •
. Q Was anyone present besides you; any nurses or patients?
A Yeah; there was a patient in the next bed ~t·o. hers; yeflh ••
Q Do you know the name of the patient?
A I can ea·s:i,~ly get you the name.
Q What hospital was that?
A Washington Hospital. She, herself told the patient in the
bed along side of her what was going on.
Q What did she tell that patient?
A That she was very dissatisfied with the family not corning
to see her.
45
<I
Q Did she mention specifically what membe:rs of the family she
was dissatisfied with?
A ].!Iy father, Norma and Arthur. As far as that goes the rest
of them are all in F1orida • .
Q Then, did she say something about the Will or changing her
Will?
A No; she said she was going to talk to Arthur. She was real
mad at Arthur cause the family was not coming out to visit
her. So this went on; :t didn't pay any attention to it.
Q So, she didn 1 t specifically say anything a bout t a king Arthur
out of her Will?
A Later on she did; yes.
Q When did she first say this?
A I don't remember the day; but it was later on in the warmeJ
weather there.
Q Was she at your home or ---?
A Yes; she was at home and if I recall I think there was
another time she went to the hospital there; but she asked
me to call Arthur again; she wanted to talk to Arthur.
I called him up, but no results.
~ Did you talk to Arthur?
A Yes, I did.
Q What did you tell him?
A He said, t~My time is my own."
Q Well, not what he said; what did you tell him?
A I told him to come out and visit my aunt; my runt wants
to talk to him.
46
I
I
I
Q Did you tell him what she wanted to talk about?
A Well, I told him about the family not coming out; I said,
rtLizzy wants to talk to you.'•
Q Did you tell him about her changing the Will?
A No, no, no; I didn't say anything. She just told me to
call Arthur to come out; she wanted to talk to him.
Q And he said, nMy time is my own.n?
A nMy time is my own; my weekends I go to my cabinn; and he
..
said, "'As far as visiting sick peoplett, he says, ••I' 11 go
when I get time.n
Q And, did you tell your aunt then, what he had said?
A Yeah, sure thing.
Q Was your aunt about at this time or was she bedridden?
A
Q
No; she hadn't been bedridden.
Did she talk on the phone to anybody?
A Several times, yeah; whoever she wanted to talk to, we
would dial the number.
Q Did she ever call Arthur up?
A No; I don't think she ever called him. She might have
talked to him; but we would always dial the phone and let
her talk to anybody she wanted to, several of her
neighbors.
Q But this particular time she asked you to call Arthur;
is that right?
A Yes, definitely.
Q Did she have any other visitors; any friends or other
relatives at the hospital or at your home?
47
A No; a couple of fri eno.s ---she asked and we would call --. .,
Q Well, who were they?
A The neighbo:r:s over. in H·omestead; Mrs'. Capchack and there's
another lady on the very corner there; I can't think of.
her last name now; it was her very very dear friend that
she talked to; her real close neighbors.
Q Were these the only two people who came out to visit her?
A No, they didn't even come to visit her, no.
Q They didn't come to visit her either?
A No; we took her over there; we took her over there to
visit.
Q You took your aunt over to the Capchack's to visit?
A Yeah.
Q When was this?
A Well, during the warm months; whenever she wanted to get
out.
Q This was in the summer of 1 69 then?
A In '69, yeah; she wanted to go out to the cemetery; that's
another thing she complained about, nobody would visit the
cemetery.
Q This was the summer of 1 69 again?
A Yes.
Q Well, did she ever ask you to take her over to visit
Arthur.
A No.
48
49
Q Did anybody visit her at your home?
A Lot of my friends and neighbors.
Q Could you give us some of their names?
A Neighbors down below me, Dave Withrow; they visited· my
aunt quite frequently. They know my aunt's condition.
Q Did any'body else as you recall come to visit your aunt?
A Yes; neighbor up in the back, George Herosick.; they were f iends
Q Anybody else?
A Yeah, my regular neighbors.
Q How about Doctor Whalen; did he come out to visit her?
A Doctor Whalen would come up whenever we· called him~ He or
the other doctor, if Doctor ~~alen was away Doctor Kittrel
would take over.
Q Was your aunt clear in her mind at this time?.
A I would say all the time; there was never a time that she
wasn't.
Q How about her physical condition; was it pretty good or---
A She got around pretty good until the last period of her
time before she passed away. Yeah, I would say she was
real good.
Q She wasn't bedridden?
A Oh, yes ---9 then she was.
Q I mean up until the ---•
A Wnen we got her out of the hospital the last time, oh, yea1,
then, yes; she was bedridden from then on through.
Q 'vlf"as that during the summer of '69 that she was bedridden?
A _Yes; that was the last time she got out of the hospital.
I
-------------------------------
Q I'm confused; I thought you had indicated you had taken
your aunt in the summer of '69 to visit neighbors over in
Pittsburgh.
A Yes; she was able to get around; I didn't say she wasn't
able to get around.
Q Well, what do you mean by ttbedriddenn?
A This was the last time she was in the hospital; shortly
before she had passed away.
Q You mean just a week or so before August of '69?
A I don't know; roughly speaking a month or so, somewhere
around that period of time. Just about a month, we had
gotten a hospital bed for her because she was getting weak
s~e couldn't get up and down like you or I or anybody else
Q But, you never discussed with her her taking Arthur out of
her Will?_
A No; she asked it.
Q When did sh~ ask about taking Arthur out of her Will?
A Well, she was supposed to mention it to him. One other
time they come to visit her when she was in the hospital
again around in June.
Q
A
Q
When you say, nshe was supposed to mention it", how did yo
know that?
Well, she told me.
She told you that she was going to tell Arthur that she
was taking him out of the Will; is that right?
50
A vVhen he came out to the hospital; if he would come out, yes.
Q Where did she tell you this? Was this at your home?
A Oh, several times, yeah; definitely.
Q Was anybody else present?
A MY mother-in-law, yeah; my mother~in-law was there.
Q What is her name?
A Caroline Yuhas.
Q How about your wife, was she present?
A Yes, and my daughters were always there.
Q As clearlY; as you can remember what did she actually say
about taking Arthur out of the Will?
A That she's real perturbe.d about the whole family, that she
wanted to take him off the Will. She asked to call him
up and bring him out there.
Q What did you say?
A I said, nyou 1 re going to cause hard feelings in the family'.
And this, I even mention to Milton Rosenberg when we went
over to his office.
Q Vlhen you said to your aunt, "It 1 s going to cause hard
feelings in the familyn, what did she say then?
A She said, ni don't care't. She said, 'tThey 1re not showing
me any respect1t, and she said nyou 1 re taking care of me;
you took me into your home. She said, "I think this is
no more than right that you should have what I haven,
Q Did she tell you what she had at that time?
A .No.
Q You knew what she had; didn't you?
A No, not necessarily, no. She had her own bankbook in her
own bedroom.
Q But, you never examined those?
51
--~ ~~--------------------------------------,
A
Q
A
Q
No; I never asked her, no.
You never saw what was in them?
Well, maybe later on I did when she got sick or something
like that there.
When she told you that she was going to take Arthur out
of her Will, did you have any idea then how much she had in
the way of bank accounts or cash?
A Yeah, then I think I did; cause I drove her. over to the
banks and she asked me to take this out of the bank for
her.
Q And, how much had you taken out?
A I don't lmow.
MR. ROSENBERG: And, this is where I direct
him not to go into that; but, I will bring
him back if I have to.
Q All right. Vfell, when did she tell you she was taking
Arthur out of the Will?
A In the warm months of 1969.
Q About what month as nearly as you can remember?
A Well, the last time she was out of the hospital was the
last time she mentioned it, but she mentioned it three or
four times; around in June, June was the last time she
was in the hospital.
Q Would this be the earliest she mentioned it? Give us a
range. When was the' earlle-st she mentioned taking ---?
'
A I told you a minute ago around in May. She told me to
52
<I
call Arthur ..
Q May of '69?
A May, that's another time shortly before she went to the
hospital she told me, And, when she went in the hospital
she told me again.
Q She told you then she was going to take Arthur out of her
Vi ill?
A Yeah.
Q You tried to talk her out of it; is that right; on the
grounds it would cause hard feelings?
53
A No; I didn't say that; you said that; I didtlt say a word oj it.
Q Well, why did you tell her it was going to cause hard
feelings?
A Why? Because my brother was mentioned in the Will; and sh~
said, '•I don't care; nobody in the family shows me any
respect, comes to visit mett. She said, "This is my busine~sn.
Q Well, your aunt, at that time, then, had some property
that she ~~nted to dispose of; is that right?
Q
A
MR. ROSENBERG: By ttpropertyn, so we are
clear ---•
Cash or savings accounts?
She had given me the cash, she had given it to me; and she
asked me to drive her to the bank and this is what I did.
Q You mean at the time she talked to you about changing the
Will, she had already given you the cash?
A She had given me ---.
Q How much had she given you?
-----------------------------------------
54
A I don't know; I can't give you the written, correct amount~
Q Well, was it over $25,000?
A I can't say the exact amount.
Q Well, had she given you her entire savings?
A I guess you would consider it her entire savings; sure, yech.
Q So then, there was really nothing for her to give away;
was there, by will; is that right?
A This is what she wanted to do.
Q Even though she now had everything in your naMe; is that
right?
A She asked me to drive her where she wanted to go; I drove r er.
Q Well, you didn't answer the question, Mr. Kesten. Even
though you had everything in your name, your aunt was stilJ
insisting that this codicil be prepared; is that right?
A
Q
A
Q
Vlell, this is what she wanted to do; I was only doing what
she asked. She asked me to drive her to the bank and I
drove her to the bank.
And, how did she give you this :noney?
How?
Yes.
She give me one check. .
MR. ROSENBERG: All right; now, wait; just a
minute. I'm 'd'irecting him not to answer and
go into that at this time. If I am directed
to do itJ we will come back and answer all
this thoroughly.
Q Now, this was in excess of $25,000?
MR. ROSENBERG: I'm directing you not to answer
that at this time.
Q Well, then, after your aunt told you she wanted to make
this codicil, what did you do?
A
Q
She asked me if I would drive ·her over to the attorney.
. Did she mention the attorney? .
A Yes, she knew the attorney; sure, she met him.
Q And, who was the attorney? .
A Milton Rosenberg. She wanted to change her Will; she said
"Drive me over the.ren.
Q And, did you do that?
A
Q
Vfuenever I found time I drove her over.
How long was it after she talked to you that you drove
her over there?
A As I recall, maybe it might have been a couple of weeks;
I don't know. I couldn't exactly say.
Q And, who went with you?
A Well, at the time there was my wife and myself and Liz, my
aunt.
Q And then, what happened after you got to Mr •. Rosenberg's
office? This was in Finleyville, right?
A Yes.
Q What happened then?
A We went upstairs and she walked up to the second floor;
we were sitting in the waiting room and come her time and
55
<D
Q
she said, uNo, Einer, you· come irl'; so, Milton said, uAll
you come in then."
Did your wife also go in?
A Yes, definitely.
Q Okay. And, then what happened?
A
Q
A
Q
She said she wanted to change her Will.
And, did she tell ~~. Rosenberg how she wanted it changed?
Yeah.
What did she say?
A She said she wanted to change the Will and take Arthur off
the Will.
Q Did she tell him who she wanted instead of Arthur?
A
Q
She said, she wanted to leave me on the Will.
Anybody else?
A Well, my wife and r. She said, "Einer has taken care of
me't. She said, ur have no respect for anybody else becausE
56 I
no body shows me any respect in the family.'~ She said, ny 01
took me in your home and nobody else would do it." She sa d,
rtr asked and I begged you; I' 11 live in your basement"; me ~ ays.
Q Now, are you talking about the conversation in Mr. Rosenbe g 1 s
office?
A
Q
Well, yeah; this is part of what she might have said, yeah
What she might have said? Just give us your best recollec ion
of what she did say.
A Now, this is what she said, that she would want to live
with us. She begged me to live with us; the minister,
himselfJ tried to put her in a home; and that's when the pcor
------------------------------------
57
lady got down on her hands and 'knee's, ·and I talked to her • --4
Q What minister was this?
A The church that she-used to go }:;o •' , ·~
Q Do you remember the minister's name?
A It's a real short name. I'm not sure of his name, off hanc,
now. I think he was transferred off.
Q What church was it? Where was it?
A I don't know; it was on the Main Street there.
Q Do you know what the name of the church was or the denominE-
tion?
A Well, it's not Catholic; no, I don't know.
Q Well, getting back to rJ.Ir. Rosenberg's office, what happenec
then after she told Mr. Rosenberg that she wanted Arthur
out of the will and wanted to add your wife?
A She didn't necessarily want to add my wife. She made my
name in the will, that was with my wife's name.
Q Well, how did your wife get added if she didn't tell r~.
Rosenberg?
A My wife didn't get added~ my aunt was doing the talking to
I~. Rosenberg. I didn't want to go in the office and my
aunt ---"
Q But, you were there though?
A Well, yeah.
Q Did your armt tell ·Mr. Rosenberg that she wanted your wife
A
Q
in the will?
She told him exactly what she wanted, yeah; definitely.
And then, did Mr. Rosenberg take all this down in shorthan<
as he did before?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
He wrote it down, whatever the necessary legal ways of doing
it; yeah ..
Did your aunt pay him then for the revision?
I don't recall; I think there was a check made out.
By your aunt? ·
Yes; she had ~er own checks. ·I can get the check. .
Then, did Mr. Rosenberg mail the codicil to you; the codicjl
of June of 1 69, did he mail that to you? .
A I believe that was· the second one he mailed to me; ·I can't
58
say for sure at the time, but I believe it was mailed out i oo.
Q Then, after you got it through the mail what did you do?
A What did I do; nothing. It's hers.
Q Oh, you gave it to her?
A It came in her name, She kept her own personal belongings.
Q Well, when you got it through the mail was it already signEd?
A She had showed it to me; I don't recall. However it was m.: de
up in Rosenberg's office that's the way it has to be.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
I'm asking you, your best recollection is that you receive(
it through the mail; isn't that right?
Well, her name was on it.
Was her name already signed to it?
I don't recall whether her name was signed to it or not; I
don't know what the 1 egal procedures are to make something
legal.
Well, did you look at it after you got it through the mail
A She showed me that she got it and that was it. I didn't
pay that ---.
Q Wben you looked at it was it signed or not?
A I don't recall.
I •
I
I
59
Q How about these witnesses, when did they sign it?
A When did they sign it?
Q Yeah; on the codicil?
A They had come to visit and she ask them if they would witnEss
Q
their signatures.
Well, how long was this after you had gotten it through
the mail?
A I don't even know. It could have been even a couple of
weeks or so; I don't.know; I can't say. It was nothing
of importance.
Q Who were the visitors?
A Mr. and 1~s. Gregory.
Q Where did they sign the Will?
A At the necessary places.
Q What part of the home were you in?
A In the kitchen.
Q Where was your aunt when that was signed?
A They was all there; my daughters were there; we had a hous
full of company.
Q
A
Q
A
Q·
A
Who was this company?
My sonJ my oldest daughter and the youngest daughter, the
three of them and my mother-in-law was there.
Anyone who is not a member of the family?
Not to my knowledge except Mr. and Mrs. Gregory, that's 1
all; they were the ones that signed it. She asked them to ---. I
Where did they live in relation to your home?
About two miles away on Dickey Drive. in McMurray.
Q And, at the time they signed you don't remember whether
Mrs. Reich en bach ~aouJ.;d: ,si•gn or :not'!?
Oh, she had signed it, I guess; this I wouldn't know, All
I know this was her papers and she give it to the people;
it had to be signed~ I suppose.
Q Well, did you see them signing their names?
A I sat by at the table; I didn't watch over their heads.
Q Well, did you see them. signing?
A Lizzy give them a pen and they signed; yes, I was present
right in the room.
Q Were you present when your aunt signed?
A I suppose so; sure, I had to be.
Q You suppose so?
A Yeah; because I was with her all the time anyhow. If I
wasn't with her, my wife was with her.
Q Well, when did your aunt sign the Codicil?
A Probably the same time as they signed it as a witness or
something-
Q Probably? Aren't you sure?
A No, I'm not sure; no. As I told you I don't know any
legal figures about this.
Q I'm not asking you for legal figures. I'm asking you if
you remember when she signed the Codicil?
' A No, I don t remember.
Q You don't remember whether she signed it after you
immediately got it through the mail; do you?
A No.
60
Q Did she sign it at Mr .. Rosenberg's office?
.A This I can't say; I don't remember ---•
Q She could have signed it at~~. Rosenberg's office?
A No; I don't think so because Mr. Rosen berg had to make
this up and send it through the mail.
Q You donrt remember when or where she signed it?
A In the kitchen when the witnesses met with her ---were
present here. She had a pen in her hand; as I told you
a minute ago, I wasn't leaning over anybody's shoulder.
She had give them the papers. They had signed and more an<
likely she signed too at the same time.
Q When you say, ttmore and likely'• you didn't see her sign
it then; did you?
A Well, she had the pen in her hand•
Q Did you see her sign the Codicil?
A I was standing by the table, I guess; of course, I was
right there with the whole family; I can't help not seeing
it.
Q What time of day was it?
A P. M.; I know it was afternoon hours.
Q And why were Mr. and Mrs. Gregory selected as witnesses?
A \~y? She asked them; they were visiting at the time and
she asked them to sign.
Q Where did she keep the Will or the Codicil? Where did you
keep it? .
A No, I didn't keep it; she kept all her own personal
belongings in her own bedroom.
61
Q Where at in the bedroo~?
A She had little wooden box where she kept all her personal
belongings.
Q A little wooden box in her bedroom?
A Yes,
Q Now, this is a copy of your aunt's signature; right?
(Indicating)
A Yeah; that's hers and this one here. Yeah, this is her
signature.
Q Right above it there iilse-rte·O: the 6th day of June; right?
.A Yeah.
Q Who put that on this Codicil?
A MY wife was standing there; she signed the date in. My
wife was standing right there and she put the date in.
We was all standing there at the table a.nd if I recall
now, like I told you, it was after P.M.; I think the tabl~
was cleared off at the time and this is when my aunt laid
it down on the table.
Q Now, before the execution of this Codicil, did your aunt
say anything to you or to the Gregorys.
A No; everybody talked as if visitors or anybody else around
the house. This is it.
Q Well, did she tell the Gregorys that this was her Will?
What did she say to them?
A Yeah; she showed them this is my Will and she asked them
if they would take and sign and witness my V'l'ill and that
here and she handed them a pen then. And she said;
62
.~
1'Would you read it?'t And, if I recall they said, "No,
why would I want to read ittt.
Q How about your aunt, did she read the Codicil?
A Yeah, sure.
Q When did she read it?
! Probably when she got it in the mail and showed it to me.
Q Did you see her reading it?
A WellJ she had it in her hand, yeah.
Q When was this?
A Oh:, let's see. I would say shortly before I went back to
lunch. The mailman come at 12:00 o'clock.
Q What date was this?
A
Q
I don't recall the date.
But, when you say you saw her read it, you said she had it
in her hand; is that right? Did she read it aloud? How
do you know she read it?
A Well, she put her glasses on. Vlhy would she put her glasses
on? To read something.
Q You specifically recall her putting her glasses on?
A That's right; when she reads something, she puts her glasse~
on.
Q And, where was this? What part of the house was this in?
A Well, in between the ---just about in between the living
room and the kitchen; that's where I was sitting down
eating.
Q NowJ did your aunt after she had executed this Codicil, did
she talk to you any further about the Will or the dispositi(n
of her property?
63
A No,.
Q Never said anything more about it?
A No; everything went on as usual. Nothing was said. I mear
she we.nt a bout her everyday business and I went a bout my
~veryday business and that was it.
Did she continue to complain about Arthur or your father
not coming to see her?
A Naturally she did; of course,
Q And, you called them again; did you?
A Yes, sure I called them. I called them when she went into
the hospital.
Q Did you tell Arthur that she had changed her Will?
A My aunt was going to tell Arthur~
Q
A
Did you tell him?
No, I didn't tell Arthur; I called my brother up to tell
him to come out because my aunt wants to talk to him.
Q Now, this was before she had changed the Will; isn't that
right?
A I called him several times;
Q You called him both before and after ---?
A About visiting and also to when she had changed this over.
Q Did you tell Arthur that your aunt has changed the Will?
A I didn't tell Arthur that my aunt had changed the Will; no.
That was her business; that 1 s why she went __ t o··,an attorney,
Q You knew that she had changed her Will?
A I was in the office with Mr. Rosenberg,
64
Q When did you tell Arthur that your aunt had changed the Will?
------------------
65
A I didn 1 t tell him.
Q You never told him?
A No; I didn't tell him.
Q How qbout after your aunt died?
A Well, when my aunt died, that was different; then, he found
it out.
Q How did he find it out?
A . My auJ:!t'was supposed to tell him. She promised me faithfully
day after day that she would tell him.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Did you ask your aunt to tell him?
No, I didn't ask.
Vfuy would she promise you to tell him?
Because as I told her a half a dozen times it would make
hardships in the family.
Then, when JT:OU told her it would cause hardships she said,
'tVlell, I promise to tell Arthur.tt?
A Here's one time that I recall that she said something
about telling Arthur. This was the time in June when she
was in the hospital. This was another time when she was
really upset and there was a lady ---•
Q This was at the Washington Hospital?
A Yes.
Q Go ahead; nThere was a ladyu ---?
A A lady'in the bed along side of her and she heard just
about everything too.
Q Do you remember her name?
A No; but I can easily get it,through the hospital.
-~-------~---------------------------------------
Q Well, would you furnish us that name to us?
A Pardon me.
Q. Would you agree to furnish that name to us?
A Definitely, sure.
Q The name and address of this person?
A Yeah; we can get it.
Q What did your aunt say on this occasion in the Vliashington
Hospital?
A Well, she didn't have to necessarily say anything. She
heard the conversation; I think she was an elderly lady.
JYJR. ROSENBERG: The question ist "What did
your aunt say11 ?
A Vfell, she spoke to the lady in the bed probablyJ several
times about the family or something; and this is my aunt's
way of talking to somebody; nobody there to visit her or
something like that. And she had told me that the lady in
the bed along side of her spoke up and said, "If your
aunt doesn't get visitorst~ or something like that.
Q Well, had she also on this occasion in the Washington
Hospital say to you where the patient could hear that
she had changed her. Will or words· to that affect because
Arthur had not visited her?
A Patient heard that?
Q Yeah; or anything to that affect?
A I don't know if my aunt told her or not; this I wouldn't
know, what my aunt told the· lady.
66
You mean all the patient could say was that she complained
about not getting visitors?
A Yes; how the family was treating her .•
Q Now, you say your aunt was in the hospital in June; is that
A
Q
right? June of '69?
I think that was the last time she was in.
That's June of 1 69, before she passed away~ Now, was that
before or after she executed this Codicil? Look at the
Codicil.
MR. ROSENBERG: Dated June the 6th.
A No; I think she was in the hospital around June 1st, I
don't exactly recall the exact date; but I think that was
. the last time she was in the hospital.
Q Well, then, she executed this Codicil after she got out of
the hospital?
·MR." ROSENBERG: ·If you know.
A -No, I don '.t know; if I could only remember the date that
she was in the hospital. It was like four or five times
that she v1as in the hospital, but I can't give you the
exact dates.
Q Have you ever paid any inheritance or gift tax on your
aunt's bank account?
A Yeah, I paid tax.
Q Well, what, gift tax?
A Well, yeah; this is what she had give to me; I paid my
67
income tax, yes, to the necessary ---•
Q To the federal government?
A Now, you're getting back to the checks again. This is
what you're doing.
MR. ROSENBERG: No, let me put it this way.
I'll direct him at this time not to go into
payment of tax.on this since it's beyond the
y
notice of the deposj_tion~; however, I will
attempt to get the information together. As
I said, we will bring him back.
Q Rave you filed any inheritance tax return in the Register 1 f
Wills office?
A
Q
Ilffi. ROSENBERG: Now, listen to me. I direct ycu
not to answer; it's beyond the scope.
The inheritance tax?
MR. ROSENBERG: Do you hear me?
MRS. KESTEN: Einert Listen.
MR. ROSENBERG: I direct you not to answer. I
don't mean to get mean but I direct you not'to
answer. We have nothing to hide on the record
MR. RODGERS: EXcept that Mr. Rosenberg has
directed him not to answer.
MR. ROSENBERG: I'm standing on the technicali"'y
at this·time.
When your aunt was in the hospital this last time, in June
of '69, what was her condition?
68
A That's vvhen she was getting a little worse and naturally
it was a condition that was before. She had had her
breast removed; she had cancer which the whole family knew
Q And you say that she felt very strongly that no one except
you and your wife was paying any attention to her; is
that right?
A Yeah; that's right. She often complained about it time
after time.
Q And you say that this was true that you and your wife
were the only ones ·:who were paying attention to ;heT in
the family; at that t·ime? )
A Paying attention to her and took care of her and took her
whereever she had to go, to whatever the necessary need
was; if we didn't, who w ould1
Q Well, just to be clear on this, on the Will in 1968 were
both you and your wife present when your aunt told Mr ....
Rosenberg to draw up the Will giving the estate to you and
your brother equally?
A This is the first one?
Q Yes.
A
Q
A
Q
Yes, we were all present; yeah.
Was your wife present?
Yeah.
And you were present., you and your wife were present all
the time when both the Will and the Codicil were discussed
A I drove my aunt out there.
Q And, at her insist~nce you and your wife went in with
her?
69
•
70
A She asked me to go in with her.
Q And, your wife went in also?
A She asked us to go in along; that's right. I think you'll
find ---•
MR. ROSENBERG: NowJ just answer what he asks you"'
MR. RODGERS: Do you want to put something on
the re·cord?
NIR. ROSENBERG: No. Are you finished with him,
Mr. Rodgers?
· WJR. RODGERS: I think so,.
(Discussion regarding r~. Rosenberg and
Mr. Gladden remaining at hearing any longer
due to other commitments)
-- - -------- - - - ---
(DEPOSitiON CONTINU'Eb)
-- ------ ----
<ft
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, EINER KESTEN, hereby certify that I am the witness
who was deposed by Samuel L. Rodgers, Esq., attorney for Arthur
Kesten in the above-captioned matter; that I requested the
privilege of reading and signing the deposition which I gave in
this matter after it had been transcribed by the stenographer;
that I have read the foregoing deposition and the same is true
and correct.
Einer Kesten
,.
Dated: December __ , 1970.
·.
•
IN. ·.·rHE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: )
)
ESTATE OF ELIZABETH CATHERINE )
REICKENBACH, )
NO. 63 -705-35
)
Deceased. )
DEPOSITION of PAULINE A. KESTEN
and EINER KESTEN
Taken at the offices of Rodgers and Roney,
Esquires, 63 South Main Street, Washington,
Pennsylvania, on September 7, 1972 at 1:30
o'clock P. M., Eastern Daylight Savings
Time, before Florence Dasta, Notary Publ.l,c,
pursuant to Pa. R. c. P. No. 4007, upon
agreement of Counsel.
A P P E A R A N C E S: SAMUEL L. RODGERS, ESQUIRE·,: of
the firm Rodgers & Roney, EsquirEs,
representing Arthur Kesten •
MILTON D. ROSENBERG, ESQUIRE, of
the firm Bloom, Bloom, Rosenberg
and Bloom, Esquires, representi~
Einer Kesten and Pauline A.
Kesten, his wife.
•
•
Witnesses:
PAULINE A. KESTEN,
EINER KESTEN ,
(Continuation of his
prior Dep0sition)
INDEX TO THE WITHIN DEPOSITIONS
Examination by
Mr. Rodgers
3
49
Examination by
Mr. Rosenberg
•
•
MR. RODGERS: We'll have the usual stipula-
tion as to no waiver of objections. This is the
continuation of the deposition of Einer Kesten and his
wife, Pauline Kesten. Einer Kesten has been delayed
and we•11 proceed with the deposition of Pauline Kesten,
and continue with the deposition of Einer Kesten later .
-~ ----~ ~ -
PAULINE A. KESTEN, having been duly sworn, testifies as
follows a
Q
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
EXAMINATION BY MR. RODGERSa
You have the right to read this deposition before it
is filed, Mrs. Kesten, and then sign it, or you may
waive that right. Would you consult with Mr. Rosenbergr?
MR. ROSENBERG: She'll want to read it and
sign it and we'll return it.
Is that right; you don't wish to waive the ---?
Yes.
All right. May I have your full name?
Pauline A. Kesten.
And where do you live?
124 Spring Drive, McMurray, Pa.
And you are the wife of Einer Kesten?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what relation are you to Elizabeth Reickenbach?
A Well, I guess I would be h.er niece-in-law.
3_
•
Q A niece by marriage?
A That• s right.
Q And how long did you know Elizabeth Reickenbach?
A Approximately thirty-three years.
Q How old was Mrs. Reickenbach when she died?
A
Q
About seventy-four.
And for what period before her death had she lived
with you, ~trs. Kesten?
A She came to live with us February 8th, 1969.
Q That was approximately seven months before her death
in August?
A I would say approximately.
Q And before that time, where had Mrs. Reickenbach lived~
A
Q
A
On Knottley Street in Hazelwood.
How many, if you know, how many nieces and nephews
did Mrs. Reickenbach have at the time of her death?
Well, I'll have to count them.
Q Do you want to give us their names and where they live,
if you know?
A Yes. Emil, he's living in Florida; Daniel, living in
Florida; Vera, living in Florida; Arthur, living in
Carrick and there's nephews and nieces on the other
family and I couldn't tell you.
Q
A
Q
A
These are nieces and nephews of Elizabeth's?
Of Elizabeth's.
And Arthur and Einer were the two living in the Pit~s
burgh area?
In the Pittsburgh area.
4
.------------------
I
I <I
•
•
Q Do you know what brothers and sisters Elizabeth
Reickenbach had?
A Yes. Daniel is living and Aunt Kate is living, a
sister.
Q Do they both live in the Pittsburgh area?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did she have any other close relatives, other than tho::e
you have mentioned?·
A Cousins, but no one that close.
Q Before she came to live with you, was she particularly
close with your husband, Einer, or Arthur Kesten?
A She was with my husband.
Q And in what way was she close to him?
A They visited; they came to our home.
Q And how often did she visit you or you visit her at
her home; this is in Pittsburgh?
A Yes, we would get to see them approximately three,
four times a year.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
And how about Arthur, if you know; how often did he
see her?
I don't know.
.
And you say about three or four times a year; this
would be like on a holiday, Christmas or Easter?
It varied.
And is it on this basis of these three or four visits
a year that you say that you felt that they were prett~
close, Elizabeth and Einer?
A Oh, yes, definitely. Yes, sir.
•
•
Q Did they have any other relationships besides these
visits that you can recall? '
A
Q
My husband's mother and dad; they visited there.
No; I meantyour husband, Einer and your Aunt Elizabeth,
outside of visiting three or four times a year, were
there any other relationships between Einer and his
Aunt Elizabeth that you recall before she came to live
with_you?
A Well, that's ---.
A
Q
A
Q
MR. ROSENBERGr Did you do things together?
Well, yes, we had parties together, and we Yisited.
Parties, you say?
Yes.
How often would you have these parties?
A Well, when she was younger, we would see each other
quite often then. This was even before we were married.
Q Well, say within the five years before she came to live
with you, did you have anything besides these visits
that you have mentioned?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
No; just what I'Ye mentioned.
Now, when did her husband, I belieye his name was Roy,
when did he die?
May 2, 1968.
And I think you indicated that your aunt came to live
with you around February of 1969; is that right?
Correct.
Now, how did that come about? How did it come about
-------~~------------------~··----------------------------------------_L_
6
•
•
•
that your aunt came to live with you and your husband,
Einer'?
A This one evening we went to visit her and she asked
us if we would take her in.
Q And did she give you any reason or explanation for
asking this'?
A She said she didn't want to live alone.
Q And how long had she been living alone'?
A From the time her husband passed away up until the
time she went to the hospital.
Q Well, about how long would that be'?
A That would be from May 2nd until January 29th of '69.
Q So it was some time in January of 1969 that she asked
both you and Einer; were you together'?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes, sir; she was in the hospital.
When had she gone to the hospital'?
January 29th, 1969.
Well, are you saying that she made this request at her
home or when she was in the hospital'?
A At the hospital.
Q Which hospital was this'?
A Homestead Hospital .
Q What was she at the hospital for'?
A Cancer.
Q I believe we had mentioned this; cancer of the breast;
is that right'?
A That's right.
Q And had she previously had a breast removed some years
7
•
before?
A Yes, she did.
Q Had they removed the other breast?
A No, she had the other breast.
Q Had she been informed by the doctors that this was
terminal, or do you know?
A
Q
That I don't know.
Well, was it becaus~ of her physical condition? Did
that play any part in her request to be taken to your
home?
A I don't know.
Q At any rate, the reason she gave you was that she was
just lonely~ is that the idea?
A
Q
A
That's right.
And did you and your husband discuss it or did you
agree immediately? What happened after ---'?
We were both there when she asked us and we said we
would take her in.
Q Was there any discussion made of any financial arrange-
ment or anything of that sort?
A
Q
No, sir.
And she came to live with you and Einer then about
February of 1969?
A Correct.
Q Now, what was her mental condition at that time?
A Excellent.
Q · She. was fully aware of everything?
A Yes, sir.
8
•
•
Q And how about physically; was she able to take care of
herself?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was she able to feed and clothe herself?
A Yes, sir.
Q And visit her friends?
A Yes, sir.
Q And when, if ever, did she become bedridden, so that
it was impossible for her to get around?
A That was the last week before she passed away.
Q That would be in August of 1969?
A Correct.
Q Up until August of '69, she was able to get around on
her own?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Yes, sir.
Did she require any particul~r nursing care on your
part?
No, sir. Up until the Friday before she passed away,
we had a nurse come in to give her a bath and that's
when she give her the catheter.
I was not asking about professional nursing care Par-
ticularly. I was saying, after she came to live with
you, did you, yourself, have to give her any nursing
care?
Not immediately.
When did you begin to give her nursing care?
That was just before she passed away.
About what month would that be?
9
•
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
In August.
Up until August, was she able to visit her friends and
other relatives'?
Yes, sir.
On her own'?
Yes, sir.
How would she get to them'?
A She never did, but she possibly could by bus.
Q You say she could have, but she didn't use the bus'?
A No, sir.
Q Did you or Einer ever take her to visit any.of her
friends'?
A If she wanted to.
Q Did she want to'?
A Twice; on two occasions.
Q \fJhere did she go on those occasions'?
A To visit Kabchaks one time, and Mrs. Basim.
Q And what was the first name, do you know'?
A Emma was Mrs. Basim's name and Ann Kabchak.
Q ·And what was Mrs. Kabchak's address at that time'?
A Knottley Street.
Q
A
This was her old neighborhood'?
They lived directly behind; that's right.
Q And Mrs. Basim; where did she live'?
A I couldn't tell you the street. It was the corner
before you hit ·her street.
Q It was near the Knottley address'?
A Yes.
10
•
<I
•
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Were these two separate visits?
No; it was the same visit.
Same visit?
Yes.
So now, you were talking about the summer of '69,
roughly; is that right?
'69; and my husband would take her to the cemetery.
Do you remember about when this would be; June or July~
No; around April.
Around April of '69?
Yes.
And who took her over there?
My husband.
Did you go with him?
Yes, sir.
And did you spend the day in there, or do you recall?
Just short visits.
By "short visits", do you mean what, an hour or two?
Less; I would say a half hour or so.
Now, outside of this visit to Mrs. Kabchak and
Mrs. Basim, did she visit any other persons after:she
got out of the hospital?
Just her husband's grave.
Q But she didn't visit any others?
A No, sir.
Q And she did go out to her husband's grave? Where;
Calvary Cemetery?
A No; Jefferson Memorial.
11
;----------------
•
•
Q And how often did she go out there?
A
Q
She wanted us to take her out there quite often.
Do you remember about how often you took her?
A Maybe every other week or so; a weekend.
Q And how long did she continue those visits to the gravl?
A
Q
July; sometime in July.
Now, she went back into the hospital after the Februar.
or January confinement?
A Yes, sir.
Q When did she next go back?
A March 24, 1969.
Q And how long was she in the hospital on that occasion?
A She come out, it was March JOth, 1969.
Q And what was done, if you remember, on that confinemen·?
A I don't know.
Q There was no operation that you recall?
A No, sir.
Q Was there ever any operation?
A There was no operation.
Q ?~at was her condition when she left the hospital
there at the end of March?
A
Q
A
Q
She felt better than when she went in.
Then when was the next hospital confinement?
June 24, 1969. ·
Incidentally, this confinement in February of '69,
that was at the Homestead Hospital, wasn't it?
A That was January 29th.
Q January 29th; was that the Homestead Hospital?
12
------------~-------------------------------------~--
•
•
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Yes, sir.
Who was her doctor at that time?
There at the hospital, Dr. McDermott.
Do you know his first name?
No, I don't.
Was he a general practitioner?
I don't know, but they called him.
Dr. McDermott; was he. the family doctor?
A No, he wasn't.
Q Who was the family doctor?
A Olah, Dr. Olah.
Q Do you know his first name?
A
Q
No, I don't.
And then the confinement in March, that was at the
Washington Hospital?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you say then in the latter part of June, she was
back in the Washington Hospital?
A Yes, sir; the 24th.
Q And how long did she stay on that visit?
A July 2nd.
Q And what was done at that time, do you know, during
her confinement? Who was her doctor at the hospital?
A Dr. Whalen.
Q For both of these confinements?
A
Q
A
Yes, sir.
He's from Peter's Township?
Yes.
13
I <I
•
Q Then when was the next hospital confinement?
A July 31, 1969.
Q
A
Q
A
And when did that end?
Let me see; August 11th.
And what was done for her on that occasion; do you kno'?
She had a bowel problem: they checked that.
14
Q And did they do anything besides check the bowel problEm,
that you know of?
A Not that I know of.
Q You say when she carne out in the end of March, she
seemed to improve. How about when she carne.out at the
beginning of July; what was her condition then?
A Physically, she was ill.
Q By "ill", what do you mean?
A The cancer problem that she had.
Q Was she in considerable pain?
A Off and on.
Q Was this the first time that you had noticed her being
in particular pain?
A She was in pain the very first time she was in the
hospital.
Q
A
Q
And did she take any medications or drugs to alleviate
that?
Yes, she did.
Do you know how often she took the medication?
A Well, there was different pills that she took. Potassi~rn
was one.
Q How often did she take that; if you know?
--··-----U--------------------~--r--
•
A If I remember correctly ---I couldn't really say. I
was the only one that gave her the medication.
Q
A
Q
A
Would this be several times a day?
The potassium, I believe, it was once a day and her
heart pill, I believe it was every other day. Her
aspirin, she had to have those four times a day.
How many aspirins would she take?
Eight at the most. ·That's all she was permitted to
have.
Q You mean during the day, total?
A Yes, sir.
Q And did her use of these medications increase as time
went on?
A
Q
No •
Roughly, just about the same from, well, March on;
is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And would taking these pills, and that, would that hav~
A
Q
A
Q
any effect?
No.
When you say "no", do you mean she was in just as:much
pain as before?
Well, she complained of the pain constantly.
So that it didn't seem to help her, the drugs, so far
as relief from pain was concerned?
A No.
Q Was she able to sleep?
A She was taking a sleeping pill. She was permitted one
15
a night, but she would get four or fiv·e hours and that
was all.
Q Would this lack of sleep and the pain, did that affect
her disposition?
A
Q
A
Q
No, sir.
She was still quite what; what was her disposition?
She was alert at all times.
Now, she passed away in August. What was the date tha~
she passed away?
A 17th.
Q August 17th?
A 1969.
Q And that was at your home?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who was present?
A My mother and myself were in the room and Einer was in
the next bed in the next room.
Q I believe your mother's name is Mrs. Yuhas?
A Caroline Yuhas.
Q Anyone else at home?
A Well, my daughters were home.
Q What time of day did she pass away?
A About 6:00 in the morning.
Q Had any of the other nieces and nephews been notified,
16 I
or did you know that her death was imminent at that ti~e?
A No, we didn't know. It happened fast.
Q You hadn't called any of the other nieces or nephews
or brothers or sisters; is that right?
<I
•
•
A No, sir; it happened fast.
Q Now, during the time that Mrs. Reickenbach was living
with you, did any of the other relatives come to visit
her at your home?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Her brother, Dan Kesten. My husband would go to pick
up his dad and bring him over.
I'm sorry, ---? .
Her brother, Daniel ..
Daniel?
Kesten. That's my father-in-law.
Oh, that's the ---?
Brother to Elizabeth.
That's Elizabeth's brother?
Yes. My husband would go to pick him up and bring him
over.
And how often did her brother come to visit her?
Almost every weekend my husband would pick him up.
And the brother was living at that time with whom?
Alone, in his home.
17
Q And so from February of '69 through August, your husbar.d
would pick up Daniel about every weekend?
A Every weekend, every other weekend, yes •
Q
A
And did anyone else come to visit or did Einer pick
anyone else up; any relatives?
No, sir.
Q During this period then, I take it that neither Arthur
Kesten or his wife came to visit I~s. Reickenbach?
A Norma came oYer on two occasions in the A.M.
•
Q That's Arthur's wife?
A Yes, but she wanted me to go to a fortune teller with
her.
Q She didn't come over to see Mrs. Reickenbach?
A No, sir.
Q How about Arthur: did he come over at all?
A No, sir.
Q And did anyone else. come over, any of her former
neighbors or friends?
A No, sir.
Q And how about around the holidays: around Easter, did
anyone come over?
A Well, my relatives.
Q Just your relatives?
A It was open house.
Q Well, did Arthur or Norma come over at that time?
A No, sir.
Q Or any of the other nieces or nephews?
A No, sir.
Q When she came over and wanted you to go to the fortune
teller's with her, what did you tell Norma?
A
Q
I went with Norma.
To the fortune teller?
A Yes, sir.
Q On two occasions?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was your Aunt Elizabeth at that time?
A She was there with my mom.
18
Q With your mother?
A Yes.
Q Now, outside of the visits to the cemetery, and I thin
this one visit in April, did your aunt go anywhere els~?
A She didn't want to go anyplace.
Q Well, she did go to Mr. Rosenberg's office, didn't she
A Yes, on two occasions.
Q On two occasions? When did she go to Mr. Rosenberg's
office?
A The first time she was there in June.
Q June of what year?
A 1968.
Q And at that time she wasn't living with you?
A
Q
No, sir.
And how did it come about that she decided to visit
Mr. Rosenberg's office in June of 1968?
A We were visiting her.
Q This was at her home in Pittsburgh?
A At her home, yes. And she asked my husband to make an
appointment for her to see an attorney. She didn't
know of an attorney.
Q And did she tell you what she wanted to see the attorney
about?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did she say?
19
A She said she wanted her Will drawn up. Since her husb-ellld
was gone, she had nobody.
Q Did she mention whether or not she had had a Will while
•
•
•
A
Q
A
Q
her husband was alive?
No, sir.
She didn't mention whether she did or didn't?
No, sir.
And after she asked for an attorney, what then did
happen?
A We made an appointment with Mr. Rosenberg.
Q You or Einer?
A I did.
Q And I think you said she was visiting you at the time?
A No, no.
Q Did you go over to Pittsburgh and pick her up?
A
Q
We picked her up.
At her home?
A Yes, sir. We had dinner at our place and from there
20
we went over to see Mr. Rosenberg. She drew up her WiJl.
Q When you say "drew up her Will", she told Mr. Rosenber~?
A She told Mr. Rosenberg what she wanted.
Q You and Einer were present?
A Yes, sir.
Q And at that time she had indicated that she wanted
her property and assets divided between Einer and
Arthur; is that right?
A
Q
That's right.
And did she explain why she wanted it divided that way'
A No, she didn't.
Q Now, that Will in June of 1968, where did Aunt Elizabe1h
sign that?
A At her neighbor's home.
Q This was back in ---?
A Hazelwood.
Q And were you and Einer present at that time?
A
Q
Just Einer.
Einer was present. I think Einer had testified that
this Will had been sent to him through the mail; is
that correct?
A The blank Will was sent to our home.
Q This was the Will Mr. Rosenberg had sent?
A Yes, sir. We took it over to her home and she asked
my husband to go up to Ann's with her, to witness her
Will.
Q
A
Q
Go up to ~trs. Kabchak's?
That's right. He was there and they signed the Will.
You weren't there; this is what he had told you? Is
that correct?
A I wasn't there. After they come back, she showed me
the Will.
Q She did show you the Will?
A Yes, sir.
21
Q And did she inform Arthur of her Will, to your knowled~e?
A She told Einer and me to get in touch with Arthur and
Norma and to have them over the following Sunday. We
did that.
Q Then did all four of you go to Mrs. Reickenbach's home~
A Yes, sir.
Q What happened then?
l<t
A She went upstairs and come down with her Will. She
opened up the Will and layed it on the table and she
said, "Arthur, this is my Will, I want you to read it.'
Q And did Arthur read it?
A Yes.
Q And did she explain at that time why she was leaving
her property to Einer and Arthur?
A No, she didn't.
Q What, if anything, did she say?
A She just asked him if he was satisfied with it and he
said he was.
Q And what was the purpose of having you and Einer there
do you know?
A We visited her. She practically insisted that we come
out to see her every Sunday. We had her over to our
home for dinner.
Q Oh, you mean you visited her at her home?
A From the time her husband passed away; yes, sir.
Q But you were already aware of the contents of the Will
as I understand it, of this Will of June of 1968?
A
Q
A
Q
She didn't say what she was leaving; no, sir.
She had shown you the Will before she had shown the
Will to Arthur; is that right?
The week before.
But you say she asked you to invite Arthur and Norma
over?
A Yes, sir.
Q You actually made that call?
22
•
•
A Yes, sir.
Q And she said she wanted you present at the same time;
you and Einer?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was a Sunday, you say?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
It was a Sunday, yes.
That would have been when; in June of '68, or July;
do you remember?
I couldn't say. It would have to be around that.
Some time after this Will was made?
Yes, some time after this Will was made.
And, you say at that time you had no idea of what she
had in the way of money or a.s~sets?
No, sir. I knew of a $1,000.00 policy that she showed
Arthur and I and us.
Well, did you or Einer say at that time to Norma or
Arthur that she had enough to buy two $20,000.00 homes
and something to live on?
A No, sir.
Q Did you have any idea, you or Einer, as to what she hac
at that time?
A No, sir .
23
Q And when was the first time you had some idea as to whet
she had in her estate?
A Not until about March.
Q Of '69?
A Of '69.
Q And what happened at that time?
I
I
A That's when she took us to the bank and that's the
first time we seen the book.
Q And what did the book indicate?
MR. ROSENBERG• Now, Mr. Rodgers is aware of
my position on the matter as set forth pre-
viously and we're going to stand on it. Now,
I want to repeat my position, so it's clear,
and I also want to state, if the Court should
find otherwise, on very short notice, I will
have the people back here. Our position is,
the caveat states very specifically that the
question of whether a certain codicil of
June 6, 1969 is binding, is questioned on the
grounds of fraud and undue influence and/or
on the grounds of whether W~s. Reickenbach
was of sound and disposing mind. It is our
position that going into the details of the
bank account are irrelevant and immaterial to
the codicil, which is specifically being
attacked here, and we will not, on my recommen~
dation, to these witnesses, give any testimony
about the bank accounts. We do admit that, of
course, bank accounts were shown as the witnes~
has said, but we will state no more.
MR. RODGERS: Of course, we have been through
this before. The notice specifically states
it relates to all matters of and to the caveat,
24
MR. RODGERS (Continued): and the caveat
raises the question of undue influence in a testamenta1y
capacity and certainly one of the elements is the esta e
and the Testatrix's knowledge of her estate and proper y
and what she was doing with her property, if she knew,
and, of course, we fully intend to go to the Judge of
the Orphans' Court and ask the Judge to direct both
Einer Kesten and Pauline Kesten to fully reveal the
circumstances involving the transfer of assets of
Elizabeth Reickenbach during the months immediately
preceding her death. As I understand it, Mr. Rosenbere
is going to object to any questions regarding these
bank accounts and any questions relating to the transfer
of those accounts to Einer Kesten within the period
from March of 1969 to Elizabeth Reickenbach's death in
August of 1969.
MR. ROSENBERGa That is correct.
MR. RODGERS• Can we agree that these trans-
fers were of substantial assets, Mr. Rosenberg?
MR. ROSENBERGa We can agree that assets were
transferred.
Q Now, as I understand it, Mrs. Kesten, your aunt was,
at this stage, limiting her activities to a considerable
degree because of her health?
A Yes.
Q But she did go to the bank you referred to; is that
25
I
I
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, how did it come about that she decided to go to
the bank?
A She, on her own, asked to go to the bank.
Q And to whom did she make this request?
A My husband and me.
Q And was this at your home?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall the circumstances? Was it after dinner,
A
Q
or do you remember what may have immediately preceded
the request?
It was after dinner. She wanted to go up to the bank.
Did she giv·e any reason for it?
A No, not at the time.
Q Did she later on give a reason for it?
A Yes, sir.
Q What. reason did she give?
A She said that Norma and Arthur weren't visiting herr
they had no interest in her.
MR. ROSENBERG: I have been liberal and I
think the record does disclose about the
bank accounts, so I'll permit no further
questions relative to the bank accounts.
MR. RODGERS: You mean you'll direct your
client not to answer that?
26
MR. ROSENBERG: That's correct. That's right;
I will direct them not to answer.
Q As I take it, neither Arthur or Norma had made any
visits to see Mrs. Reickenbach up to that time?
A At the hospital.
Q I mean at your home?
A At my home, no.
Q Now, at the time of Mrs. Reickenbach's death, she did
haV'e a $1,000.00 insurance policy?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who were the beneficiaries of that policy?
A
Q
A
Q
Arthur and Einer.
Did Mrs. Reickenbach change that policy?
No.
So that at the time of her death she still had Arthur
as one of the beneficiaries?
A Yes, sir.
Q On her insurance policy?
A Yes, sir.
Q Had she said anything about making any changes to the
insurance policy itself?
27
A She said she was going to leaye the policy as is,
because Art helped with some of the funeral arrangemen1s
of her husband.
Q When did she say this?
A Right along, eyen after she had her codicil made out.
Q Now, when did she first discuss making the codicil to
i<l
•
A
Q
her Will, do you remember?
Starting in March.
This was about the same time she made the visit to the
bank?
A No; March she went into the hospital. It was at the
hospital the very first time she said that.
Q Was this before or after she had made her visit to the
bank?
A After.
Q After she had visited the bank. And you say this was
after she had gone to the hospital, or before?
28
A This was after she had gone to the hospital on March 2~th
of '69.
Q She had come out on March 30th, 1969?
A Yes.
Q Of course, I take it that Arthur and Norma had visited
her in the hospital; is that right?
A The 24th and the 25th.
Q You remember that they visited on the 24th and the 25tt?
A Yes.
Q How do you remember that, Mrs. Kesten?
A Because when I was there, the woman in the next room
told me how Liz felt. Arthur told her.he wasn't going
to visit her. It was too far for him to travel.
Q You're now quoting this patient?
A Yes, sir.
Q That he wasn't going to visit her because it was too
far?
•
•
A Yes; and Liz, in front of this woman, said that she
was taking him off the Will.
Q Do you know the name of this woman?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes, I do.
May I have it, please?
Ann Hoffman.
And her address, please?
A Claysville; it's an.R. D. number.
Q And she was a room mate of your husband's aunt when
they were confined in March of '69?
A 1969.
Q And did she say anything else, this ---is it Miss or
Mrs. Hoffman? Did she say anything else about what
your aunt said?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
She said that "This nephew visits me all the time."
She said, "The other one doesn't want to visit."
.When she said, "this nephew" ---?
We were there; that's right.
You heard her say this to this woman, Mrs. Hoffman?
She was referring to Einer.
This woman, yes, sir.
And, anything further?
I told her to just forget about it. It would all come
out in the wash. That's the exact words that I used.
Q You told who?
A
Q
Aunt Liz,
Did she also say something in the hospital about
changing her Will or adding a codicil?
29
•
A Yes. She was talking to this woman. She told this
woman she was going to take Arthur off the Will.
Q Do you remember what date in March this was?
A Well, he made the v·isit March 25th.
Q Who made the visit?
A Arthur made the visit to Aunt Liz March 25th, and this
was after he told this to her, that he wasn't going to
visit.
Q So it was somewhere between the 25th and the 30th
of March?
A And the 30th of March when she was discharged.
Q Well, then she got out of the hospital about the 30th
of March; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then did you make arrangements for her to visit
Mr. Rosenberg again?
A I didn't make arrangements. For her?
Q Yes.
A Not until June.
Q What was the reason, if any, for the delay?
A She didn't say. She wanted to see Mr. Rosenberg.:.
Q
Again it was after dinner we went to see Mr. Rosenberg
But she had made this statement in the latter part of
March, but she hadn't mentioned it again for several
weeks?
A Yes. She mentioned it from March until June, until
she went to see Mr. Rosenberg.
Q You mean she kept repeating that she wanted to go?
30
<t
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Off and on.
How often did she say this?
I couldn't say offhand.
At least four or five times?
Oh, easily.
Did anyone else hear her say this?
Yes, sir.
Who else?
My mother, Mrs. Caroline Yuhas.
She lives with you?
Yes, sir. My two daughters.
What are their names?
Carolyn and Christine.
Are they married?
Well, the one daughter is married.
Could we have her married name, please?
Christine Patterson.
Christine Patterson; where does she live?
She was living with us at the time. Now she is living
in Rhode Island.
Q Where at in Rhode Island?
A It's a navy base. I don't know her address offhand.
Q And Carolyn; is she still living with you?
A Yes. And she also said it to Mr. and Mrs. Gregory on
several occasions.
Q These were the witnesses to the codicil?
A Yes.
Q Where are the Gregorys living now?
31
•
'
!
•
'
:
-
A 109 Dickey Drive.
Q This was the address at the time they signed the codici ?
A It still is.
Q Well, what, in substance, did your aunt say in the
hearing of, say, Mr. and Mrs. Gregory?
A
Q
I don't understand.
You said she referred to the fact she wanted to leave
Arthur out of her Will and that this was said in the
presence, among others, of I~. and Mrs. Gregory?
A Yes.
Q Now, as near as you can remember, what were her words?
A She said she was going to take her nephew, Art, off
the Will because he doesn't show any interest in her.
He pays no attention to her •
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
About when was this said in Mr. and Mrs. Gregory's
presence?
That's been said a few times.
Several times in their presence?
Yes, sir.
Do you remember, would this be in April or May?
It would have to be between March and June.
Was this in your home?
Yes, sir.
Were Mr. and Mrs. Gregory visiting?
Yes, they were visiting.
Was there any particular reason why this subject came
up, or did your aunt bring it up?
No. Many times she would just sit in a chair and she
32
•
would wonder why Art and Norma wouldn't visit.
Q She specifically mentioned Art and Norma?
A Yes, sir. They were the closest.
Q How about her brother; did she ever mention him?
A She asked to see him. When she asked to see him, well,
then Einer would go to pick up his dad.
Q When she asked to see Arthur ---?
A Einer would call his· brother. I would call Norma and
I would explain to her that Liz is awfully perturbed
that nobody comes in to visit her. The very next day
Norma called me. She said that she mentioned it to
Arthur and Arthur said, "When I hav-e time to visit,
I'll go to visit, but my weekends are my own. I do as
I please."
Q About when did this conv-ersation occur?
33
A This happened several times. I never followed up the -1--•
Q Do you remember particularly when she was saying that
Arthur decided to ---?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
When she was talking about changing her Will.
But you don't remember any specific date?
No, sir.
How many times did you call Norma or Arthur in this
period, say from March until June?
I imagine it's been about five times that I, myself,
called.
And how about Einer; how often did he call?
He called in the evening. I didn't pay any attention tp
who he was calling. Many times I'd be busy with Liz at
•
the time.
Q But he called seYeral times also'?
A Yes.
Q Do you know whether he called Arthur or Norma'?
A He would talk to Art or Norma; whoeYer answered the
phone.
Q Well, at any rate, some time passed before you Yisited
Mr. Rosenberg's office the second time; isn't that
right'?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, was there any reason for this delay'? Was it
34
because of her physical condition or what was the diffi ulty~
A No; that's when she wanted to go.
Q She had talked about it seYeral times and then how did
it come about that the appointment was made'?
A She was determined she wanted to go to his office that
eyening.
Q And did you make prior arrangements or did you just
go to his office'?
A
Q
A
Q
No, we just went to his office. It was a Tuesday eYeni~g.
And who all went'?
My husband and myself and Aunt Liz.
And then what occurred at the office'?
A Well, Mr. Rosenberg called her in and she turned around
and beckoned us to come in too.
Q And what was said there'?
A She told Mr. Rosenberg she wanted her Will changed.
Q Was there any further discussion'?
•
•
A Well, she told Mr. Rosenberg she wanted to take Arthur
off the Will; she wanted Arthur's name taken off and
Q
my name put on, and she proceeded to tell Mr. Rosenberg
why she wanted it on. Mr. Rosenberg said it wasn't
necessary to put all that on, and she tapped her finger
on the desk and she said, "No, that's the way I want it "
What did she tell Mr. Rosenberg?
A She said she wanted Arthur off the Will because he paid
no attention to her. He had no interest in her.
Q And what else?
A That was the extent of it.
Q And did you or Einer say anything?
A She said she wanted Arthur off the Will. Einer turned
to her and he said, "Liz, this is going to cause hard
feelings in the family." and she said she didn't care.
And she promised him then that she would let Arthur
know. Each time Einer would tell her to get in touch
or ask to get in touch, she said, nLeave it to me, I'll
get in touch with them."
Q Did you or Einer say anything other than it would "cause
hard feelings"?
A
Q
No •
Now, from the time she had made her initial Will in
June of 1968 until you had gone to Mr. Rosenberg's offi<e,
about changing the Will, had you, at any time, discusse<
with Mrs. Reickenbach her Will?
A No, sir.
Q What about Einer?
I
!
' A No, sir.
Q You've never mentioned it or discussed it at all?
A No.
Q And did she also say anything about including you in
the codicil on this visit to Mr. Rosenberg's office?
A She told Mr. Rosenberg.
Q And did she give any reason for including you?
A No, sir.
Q Now, had you, in fact, at that time, performed services
for her?
A Nothing, outside of cooking dinner for her.
Q And you hadn't done anything, anything above and beyond
the call of duty?
A No, sir.
Q Had you received payment of any kind; you or Einer?
A No, sir.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
For food or clothes or anything?
No, sir.
She did get a Social Security check,
She got some kind of a check.
You don't know what it was?
A No.
Q A Veteran's Pension?
A I don't know.
Q What happened to her checks?
A I don't know; I gave them to her.
Q Then did.she deposit them, or what?
A Yes, she deposited them.
J t"
~~
didn't she?
36
•
•
Q
A
Q
A
Q
And how did she deposit them?
I don't know. She put some in the bank and I think she
spent some.
Who took her to the bank?
She would have my husband and me take the check down
to the bank for her.
She would endorse them and give them to you and you
would deposit them? .
A Yes.
Q Did she sign any checks for you or Einer to cash?
A I think she did, a couple of them.
Q What was the occasion for doing this?
A I don't recall. She said she'd like to have some cash
money on hand .
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Did she ever offer you any money for her room and board~
She's offered to buy me gifts.
Did you accept them?
I refused.
You got no monies whatsoever from her up until the time
of her death?
No.
And she did not pay you or Einer anything for her livinP
at your home?
No, sir.
How about her medical and hospital bills; how were they
paid?
A She had Medicare and hospitalization.
Q How about her drugs; the aspirin and sleeping pills?
A She would pay for them.
Q How would she pay for them?
A By check or cash.
Q Well, who would get them?
A I would get them.
Q She would give you the cash?
A Yes.
Q Now, some time, of. c·ourse, during ·the course of the
summer, she did become very ill; didn't she?
A The last time in August.
Q Any time before that?
A Well, she had been sick where she had to go to the
hospital.
Q Well, for example, did she become incompetent, for
example, and wet the bed and you would have to change
the bedclothes?
A Oh, no, up until
Q That never happened?
A When her bowels, when she had a bowel breakdown.
Q When was that?
A And that was in July 31st.
Q And then did you have to clean the bedclothes and that
sort of thing?
A That was that day. I called the doctor and the doctor
came up.
Q Did you ever say anything to Norma or Arthur in their
presence about having to do this?
A Yes, I did.
38
Q When and where was that?
A She went into the hospital on the 31st: the 4th.
Q The 4th of August?
A The 4th of August.
Q This was at the Was~~ng]Qn ~ospital?
A That's right; we were in the parking lot.
Q By "we", you mean you and Einer?
A My husband and I, and I was ready to get into the car,
and that's when Arthur said to "get our heads together,
the bankbook's on the table, and get her to a convales-
cent home."
Q This discussion took place at the parking lot?
A Yes, as I was getting into the car.
Q
A
Now, you say at that time you had said something about
haYing to take care of these bedclothes?
My husband told Arthur in the hall at the hospital.
Q What did he tell him?
A I don't know what he told my husband.
Q No, I mean, what did your husband tell Arthur?
A I don't know what my husband told him. It's just what
he told me, that he told Arthur that her bowels had
39
let loose and I had thirteen sheets in the wash that da .
Q And you had not said anything about this at all?
A At the parking lot I did.
Q
A
Q
What did you say at the parking lot?
I told him that there was clothes that I had to take
care of, exceptionally a big load.
And what was the reason for this discussion?
•
40
A No reason at all. It was just that he got me -~-my
husband and him were talking in the hall at the hospita .
My husband told him that her bowels had let loose and
he told him that there was a load of clothes that were
messed. And then that's when he got me in the parking
lot and he said that he didn't realize that I had that
much problems with Aunt Liz.
Q Were you all presen~ at that time?
A Yes.
Q And he said he didn't realize how much problems y·ou
had and he suggested that you get the bankbook and
arrange to put her in a nursing home; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what was said then?
A I told them then I would never put her in a nursing
home.
Q And did you give any reason for not doing that?
A Well, once before, her Reverend had her observe the
Methodist Home and she cried. She said she didn't want
to be put away.
Q Well, I mean, did you, at that time, give any rea"S:on
to Arthur for not going along with this?
A No, I didn't.
Q But you did say you would never agree to that?
A That's right.
Q What did Einer say?
A Einer didn't say anything.
Q Did you say anything about she didn't have enough· money
•
41
to consider that?
A No, I didn't.
Q Did Einer say that?
A No, he didn't.
Q Was anything said about it being economically impossibl~?
A No.
Q Nothing was said along those lines?
A No.
Q How long did this discussion last; couple of minutes?
A Yes; a short time.
Q And after you said that you wouldn't agree to that, was
the subject dropped; was there any further discussion?
A Yes.
Q What was ---?
A The next day.
Q What happened the next day?
A They visited Aunt Liz, and on the way home, they stoppe~
at my place.
Q They visited Aunt Liz at the hospital?
A Yes.
Q And stopped at your place on the way home?
A At my place. ·
Q That would be around the 5th of August?
A
Q
That was the 5th of August.
Incidentally, did you keep a diary or anything? You
have a remarkable memory.
A No, I'll tell you what happened. When Liz knew that
she wasn't getting any visitations, no cards or anythin~,
she said to me, "I want you to put these dates down on
•
the calendar.11 I have the calendar.
Q You mean Mrs. Reickenbach told you to write these
dates down?
A She told me to write' these dates down.
Q Did she give you any reason for that?
A What she felt, I don't know.
Q What did she want you to write down?
A Any time something !ike this happened where visitations
to the hospital.
Q Do you have a record of each day of when ---?
A Not of each day; these dates that she would tell me to
mark on the calendar.
Q She would tell you, for example, "Put down that Arthur
and Norma did not visit."?
A
Q
A
Yes.
And did she also mention anyone else?
No. She said she had Arthur on the Will and she was
most interested in that.
Q You say you still have this calendar?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what information does it have besides these da;tes
42
on which Arthur and Norma did not visit Mrs. Reickenbac,?
A That's about it.
Q Did it also indicate when they may have been to your
home? You mentioned that they visited your home?
A Yes.
Q You put that down too?
A Yes.
•
•
•
Q Did Mrs. Reickenbach tell you to do that?
A Yes.
Q At any rate, on the 5th of August, did both of them
come .by?
A
Q
A
Yes, sir.
And what was the nature of the discussion then?
Well, they didn't say. Ruth and Bud Gregory were over
our place that evening.
Q I'm sorry, I -·--?
A Mr. and Mrs. Gregory were at our place that evening.
Q I understood they had been to the hospital; I'm talking
A
Q
about Arthur and Norma, they had been to the hospital
on the 5th of August and stopped at your place?
They came to my place.
And then my question was, what discussion or conversa-
tion took place at your home when Arthur and Norma
came there?
A Well, there was really no discussion. We had company
that evening; Mr. and Mrs. Gregory were there.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
This was in the evening?
Yes.
In other words, you then simply exchanged greetings?
That's right.
No further discussion about the nursing home or anythin~
of that sort? Is that right?
That's right.
And did you note that on your calendar also? This v'isi"'
of August 5th?
4_1
A That they visited on the 5th; yes.
Q Your aunt wasn't there on the 5th?
A No.
Q Do you also have on the calendar the dates that you
visited your aunt in the hospital?
A
Q
I visited her every day that she was in the hospital.
Do you have that noted on your calendar?
A No, 'cause I knew I went in to visit her.
Q And do you have the dates, for example, when you went
to the bank or Mr. Rosenberg's office?
A No. She wanted things pertaining to Art on the calendar.
Q And when did you start this calendar on Arthur?
A I believe it was in March.
Q In ~mrch of 1969?
A Yes.
Q Was this before she went to the hospital or while she
was in the hospital?
A No, that was from February the 8th, from the time that
she came to my place.
Q February 8th?
A Yes.
Q At that time Mrs. Reickenbach told you that she would
like you to keep a record of the times that Arthur
visited?
A Yes.
Q So at that time, apparently, your aunt was concerned
about Arthur's failure to visit?
A To visit.
44
<t
'
i I
I
{I
I
Q Now, you had said that a Methodist minister, on a
previous occasion suggested that Mrs. Reickenbach go
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
to a nursing home?
He took her there to observe.
When was this?
That was before she came to my home to live. That was
in January of '69.
In January of 1969?
Yes; before she went into the hospital.
And who was the Methodist minister?
Reverend Bissell, I believe.
Do you know his first name?
I don't know his first name.
What church was he connected with?
That would be the Mary Brown Methodist Church.
Is that in Homestead?
Hazelwood.
Do you know what the reason was for suggesting her to
go to a nursing home?
A No, I don't know.
Q How did you learn about it?
45
A She gave me this application. She told me. She showed
it to me and said, 11 M :y; Reverend had me at the Methodi~ t
Home to observe it." She said, "I don't want to go."
Q Did she give you any reason for not wanting to go?
A No, sir.
Q Was it at this time that she asked if you would consideJ
taking her in?
A No; that's when she took her first illness. January
29th she went into the hospital.
Q But the suggestion that she go into the nursing home,
that was before she went into the hospital in January?
A
Q
Yes.
Now, Einer, in his deposition, had said something about
her getting down on her knees and begging not to be
taken?
A When we were in the hospital, she laid in that bed and
she asked us if we would take her into our home.
Q This was the confinement in January?
A January 29th to February 8th, yes.
Q Well, now, did she get down on her knees and beg?
A She didn't get literally down on her hands and knees.
She was in the hospital; she laid on the bed.
Q What did she say?
A· She asked us if we would take her into our home. She
said, "It's no good living alone."
Q Well, did she say anything like, "I beg you to take me
.in.", or any words to that effect?
A Yes. She said, "I beg you to take me." At the time,
I had to take my daughter's bed away from her.
Q You were reluctant, at that time, to take her because
of the inconvenience?
A I didn't tell her either one way or the other. I just
told her we would take her in. Arthur and Norma came
in that evening ---.
Q 'When she first asked you, you didn't make any commit.;.
46
<I
<I
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
ment; is that right?
No, not immediately.
Did she ask you then again; Mrs. Reickenbach?
That same evening before Norma and Art walked in.
When she initially brought it up and begged or pleaded
that you take her in, you didn't say anything one way
or the other?
No.
Nor did Einer?
Just before Norma and Art came in, she asked us again.
Did you and Einer discuss the matter?
No, we didn't. We just agreed to take her right then.
How long of a period from the time she first asked you
to come and live with you until you told her you would
take her home?
It was that same evening.
Was it a half-hour or an hour? You said you considered
it?
A I'd say about a half-hour.
Q And-this was where; at the Homestead Hospital?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were there any nurses around?
A No.
Q Then you say Arthur and Norma came; is that right?
A Yes.
Q And then did you tell them that you were taking her in?
A I didn't tell them; she told them that she was coming
into live with us.
47
Q Did she say anything else?
A They said it was fine.
Q Was there any reference made at that time to the Will?
A No, sir.
Q Or whether this would affect it?
A No.
MR. RODGERSa I think that's all.
MR. ROSENBERG& This is the continuation of
the deposition of Einer Kesten. I know that
Mr. Rodgers has read the deposition as have
I, and I would ask him not to be repetitious.
I do not want to be unfair, but I do not want
to be repetitious, as the witness is entitled
to give his deposition once and not twice.
MR. RODGERS& Well, I have a suggestion,
Mr. Rosenberg, that if you have an objection
to a specific question, that you make it at
that time.
48
.
•
•
•
E. Kesten -Rodgers
EINER KESTEN, having been duly sworn, testifies as followsa
EXAMINATION BY MR. RODGERSa
Q This is a continuation of your deposition, and I have
noted that you have taken out some notes. May I examinE
them, please?
A
Q
Sure thing.
These notes are essentially dates between May of '68
and August of '69?
A Yes.
Q Indicating various items concerning the death of your
au-nt and confinements in the hospital and that sort
of thing; is that right?
A That's for some of ---.
Q Did you prepare these notes y·ourself?
A Yes. I prepared it along with my wife. We both went
over these notes and I asked if it would be all right
to use them here.
Q And did you also refer to this calendar that your wife
mentioned?
A No, sir; I didn't use that at all.
Q Now, at your last deposition, there was some confusion
' over when your aunt came to live with you. Now~. I
take it that since then you've considered that matter,
and do you want to give us the ·date that you now believ~
your aunt first came to live with you?
A When she came to live with us?
Q Yes.
A February 8th of '69, she came to live with us.
Q So that at the time she made this first Will, she was
living in he_r own home over around Hazelwood'?
A Yes, the one on Knottley Street.
Q And when she made the codicil, she had been living
with you and your wife for several months'?
A Correct.
Q Now, before she cam~ to live with you, neither you nor
Arthur were extremely close to your aunt; were you?
A I was close to her.
Q Well, I think it has been indicated that you visited
0
each other about three or four times a year'? Is that a out
right'?
A
Q
A
Holidays or occasions; picnics.
And Arthur was there about the same number of times?
No. I visited my aunt, oh, my, even before we were
married, my wife and I went over to visit with my
oldest brother and I recall never to have Arthur in the
presence, at my aunt's, such as picnics or little
reunions.
Q I'm talking about a period of say five years or so.
A
Q
before she came to live with you.
I'm going back thirty-one, thirty-five years.
Let's say the five years before February of '69 when
she came to live with you. During that five year
period, is it correct to say that you visited your
aunt about three or four times a year'?
A Occasions, holidays, whenever she asked us to come over
51
we'd go over there.
Q Was that about three or four times a year, or more or
less?
A It could be more; more, at different times.
Q Well, about how many times would you go?
A This I couldn't say how many times it would be.
Q But it was generally a holiday or something of that sor ?
You didn't visit each other regularly every week or
every day?
A Well, we got together.
Q You didn't visit regularly every week or every day?
A Not every week, no.
Q Nor every day?
A No, sir.
Q Now, who first brought up the idea of your aunt coming
to live with you?
A My aunt asked.
Q And when did she ask?
A When she was in the hospital, Homestead Hospital.
Q And what did she say?
A She asked if she could come to live with us.
Q Well, did she beg that she be allowed to come live
with you?
A Yes, she did. In my opinion, this is begging, real
begging.
Q What did she say?
A "Please take me in your home."
Q Did she say, "I' 11 even li ye in your basement. ••?
\
!
A She quoted those words.
Q Is that what she said?
A
Q
She quoted those words definitely, one hundred percent.
And did she give any reason for that?
A She can't live by herself. She wants to live with us.
She asked if she could live with us.
Q And did she indicate what she would do if you permitted
her to come and liv~ with you?
A She didn't say what she would do. My wife and I agreed
that we would take her in. She asked a second time,
and we took her, within a half-hour's time or whatever
it might have been.
Q You say you considered it for about a half an hour; is
that right?
A Well, we thought it over a couple minutes, yes.
Q What did you have to consider?
A Nothing to consider. I took my mother-in•law in the
same way.
Q Was it inconvenient in terms of bedrooms or anything
like that? Did you have sufficient space?
A Only for one person; my daughter. We bought one-new
bed and we moved my daughter out onto the porch, which
was closed in, and she stayed in the room with my
mother-in-law.
Q And your mother-in-law was living with you at the time
also?
A Yes, she is.
Q And you have what; several daughters?
52
•
--------------------------
A Yes, two daughters.
Q At the time you took your aunt in, how many persons
were living in your home?
A The two daughters, my wife and I and my mother-in-law,
and my aunt came to live with us.
Q How big a home do you have?
A There's three bedrooms and a closed in section out ther '
where my daughter moved into that with her bed, and we
have a living room, a dinette and kitchen together and
a finished basement.
Q But you say you did take about a half-hour or so before
you decided to allow her to come visit with you; is tha~
right?
A It wasn't like that. We talked, how she was feeling
and everything and my wife and I looked at each other
and said, "Definitely, she'll live with us."
Q Well, that wasn't a half-hour, that was maybe what; a
minute?
53
A Well, we talked, "How we doing, Lizzie. Are you feelin~
Q
.·better today?" and then after awhile, I mean, naturally
you're only going to stay at the hospital an hour, ·or
something like that for a visit, but I would say in the
neighborhood of about a half-hour.
Did you discuss with your wife privately whether you
should take your·aunt in?
A No, we made up our minds right in front of her there.
Q You didn't discuss the matter privately or decide to --r-?
A No; just standing right there in front of her. We said
•
we would definitely take her in.
Q And at that time had you any idea of your aunt's assets
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
or what she was worth?
Nothing; no, none.
Had you previously been present when your aunt made thi~
Will in June of 1968?
I went to Rosenberg's office with her.
Were you also presen.t at your aunt's home when your wif
and Arthur and Norma and your aunt at her home there,
after she made the Will in June of '68?
Wait a minute, now. Would you repeat that?
After your aunt had made this Will in June of '68,
wherein she left everything to you and Arthur.
Yes.
Did you have a meeting in your aunt's home on a Sunday?
A Yes.
Q At which Arthur and Norma were also present?
A She asked if I would call Arthur, and Arthur come over
the following week.
Q And that was sho~tly after June of 196~ when she had
made this Will; is that right?
A Yes; after we had received the Will •
Q And long before she was in the hospital there in
January of 1969? Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And your aunt, at that time, had taken out the Will
and allowed you and Arthur to read the Will; isn't that
right?
54
A Arthur read the Will.
Q Did you read it?
A I read the Will.
Q Well, you already knew what was in the Will?
A We received it at our address.
Q Did you know what was in the Will?
A I took it over to my aunt's address and we all looked
at it together. I looked at it, yes. I didn't open
her mail.
Q This was the first time you actually had a chance to
read the Will?
A To read the Will; that's right.
Q Incidentally, could your aunt read the Will?
A She would put her glasses on and she could read every-
thing that she would want to-read.
Q What did she usually want to read?
A Well, any notations, newspaper. She always gets the
Sunday paper.
Q She read the Sunday paper?
A Yes, definitely; all the time.
Q Well, at any rate, after you and Arthur had read this
first Will, what was said?
A She asked Arthur if he was satisfied with it, and he
said, "Yes. ".
Q Did she ask you if you were satisfied?
A Well, I already looked at it, and it was for Arthur and
I in the Will.
Q Did she ask you if you were satisfied?
55
[-----~~----------------------...__---r--
A I don't recall at the time, no.
Q Did you, at around that time, you or your wife, Pauline
discuss with Arthur or Norma how much money your aunt
had?
A Nobody knew what she had.
Q Well, did you discuss it?
A No discussion.
Q Was there any speculation about it?
A No, sir; there was no discussion at all.
Q Did you or Pauline say that she had enough for two
$20,000.00 homes and enough to live on?
A No.
Q Nothing like that was said?
A No, sir.
Q Either in your aunt's presence or outside, as you were
about to go home, on that particular occasion?
A No, sir. I've never said anything like that.
Q How about your wife, Pauline; did she say anything like
that?
A .. She never said anything to me about that.
Q Did you hear her say anything like that?
A No, sir.
Q Was your aunt fearful of having to live in a nursing
home?
A It shook her up at the time.
Q When was this time?
A This was before she went to the hospital.
Q Why do you say she was shook up? What did she say or
56
do?
A Well, she told us about it and she cried. She told us
about it when she was in the hospital.
Q And she cried because she was so fearful of the idea of
having to go to a nursing home?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
She said she didn't want to live in a home.
Well, her health though wasn't causing her to go to a
nursing home, was it?
No. She was able to get around.
But she was considerably concerned or distressed by
the idea of having to go to a nursing home?
She didn't care to live in a nursing home.
Do you know whether she had asked Arthur or Norma about
going to live with them?
I don't think she ever discussed it with Arthur or
Norma.
You don't know whether she had or not; at least you
don't know?
A That evening at the hospital, when Arthur and Norma
found out she was going to live with us, cause she
told them and he said that it was all right.
Q Did she say anything about this wouldn't make any
difference so far as the Will was concerned? Was any-
thing said?
A She didn't say anything at all.
Q At that time or at any other time?
A No, sir.
Q Of course, while she lived with you, you looked after
57
her affairs, didn't you; you and Pauline?
A When she asked us to, yes.
Q Except for the visits to ~tr. Rosenberg's office, she
remained inside the home, except for this one visit
to Mrs. Kabchak; isn't that right?
A If she wanted to go someplace, she asked us and we
took her.
Q But essentially, you were looking after her, you and
Pauline were looking after her affairs when she lived
with you?
A That's right; my wife broke her back.
Q Did your wife ever complain about the work she had to
do?
A
Q
Couple of times, yes.
Who did she complain to?
A To me.
Q Did she ever say anything to Aunt Elizabeth?
A Never.
Q What did she say to you?
A She said, "This is rough." In other words, it was
hurting her on her back.
Q
A
And when did she say this?
You could almost say in the neighborhood of a couple
times out of a month or something like that there, she'
not feeling good.
Q And by, "This is rough.", y.rhat was she referring to;
do you know?
A Well, taking care of my mother-in-law and my aunt both.
-~--------------------~---------------------------------
58
•
Neither one of them washed clothes. ·She took care of
them hand and foot.
Q In addition to washing clothes, what did she do for
Aunt Elizabeth?
A Make her everyday meals arid Aunt Lizzy never did any-
thing. She didn't clean house. She'd walk around;
take a walk outside and did as she pleased.
MR. RODGERS: . I think that's all.
MR.ROSENBERG: I don 1t have any questions.
- --~ ------ - -
( DEPOSITIONS CLOSED )
--- ------ --------
59
60
• C E R T I F I C A T E
We, PAULINE A. KESTEN and EINER KESTEN, husband and wife,
hereby certify that we are the witnesses who were deposed by
Samuel L. Rodgers, Esquire, in the above-entitled matter; that
we requested .the privilege of reading and signing the depositions
which we gave in this matter after the said depositions had been
•• transcribed by the stenographer; that we have read the foregoing
depositions and the same are true and correct.
Pauline A. Kesten
Dated: November , 1972. --
•
•
•
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA ~
COUNTY OF WASHINGTON )
SS:
61
I, FLORENCE DAST~, a Notary Public in and for the Common-
wealth of Pennsylvania, do hereby certify that the witnesses,
PAULINE A. KESTEN and EINER KESTEN, were by me first duly sworn·
to testify to the truth, the whol~ truth, and nothing but the
truth; that the foregoing depositions were taken at the time and
place stated herein; that the said depositions were reported
stenographically by me and then subsequently reduced to type-·
writing, under my direction, and constitutes a true and correct
transcript of the said.depositions given by the above-named
witnesses •
I further certify that the inspection, reading and sign-
ing of the said depositions were not waived by the witnesses.
I further certify that I am not a relative, employee or
attorney of any of the parties, or a relative or employee of
either counsel, and that I am in no way interested, directly or
indirectly, in this action.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
affixed my Notarial Seal this 8th day of November, 1972.
I Notary Public
Washington, Washington County,-
Pennsylvania.
My Commission·Expires: March 9, 1973. ~----------~~~~~~------~~----------~--~~--------~----------------t----
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
NO. 63 -705 -35
IN RE: ESTATE OF
ELIZABETH CATHERINE REICKENBACH,
Deceased.
DEPOSITION of ARTHUR KESTEN
Taken at the offices of Rodgers and Roney, Esquires, at
63 South Main Street, Washington, Pennsylvania, on September 7,
1972, at 1:30 o'clock E.D.S.T., upon agreement of the parties,
before Florence Dasta, Stenographer-Notary Public, pursuant to
Pa. R. C. P. No. 4007.
-------------
FILED
!JJl:.ru-nl~~ :J./1 /?7~
RUSSEll MARJt-IQ
REGISTER Of ~IUJJ
And now, November // , 1972 I hereby certify to have received
my fee in the sum~~'-~ 'from Bloom, Bloom, Rosenberg and Bloom,
Esquires, counsel for Pauline A. Kesten and Einer Kesten, for my steno-
graphic and notarial services rendered in the above-entitled case.
---ih ~.u-~
•
•
•
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF WASHINGTON COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
ORPHANS' COURT DIVISION
IN RE: )
)
ESTATE OF ELIZABETH CATHERINE ) NO. 63 -705-35
REICKENBACH, ~
Deceased. )
DEPOSITION of ARTHUR KESTEN
Taken at the offices of Rodgers and Roney, Esqs.,
63 South Main Street, Washington, Pennsylvania,
on September 7, 1972 at 1:30 o'clock P. M., Eastern
Daylight Savings Time, before Florence Dasta,
Notary Public, pursuant to Pa. R. c. P. No. 4007,
upon agreement of Counsel.
A P PEAR A N C E S: SAMUEL L. RODGERS, ESQUIRE,-
of the firm Rodgers & Rpney,
Esquires, representing
Arthur Kesten •
MILTON D. ROSENBERG, ESQUIREz
of the firm Bloom, Bloom,
Rosenberg and Bloom, Esquires,
representing Einer Kesten and
Pauline A. Kesten, his wife.
•
WITNESS:-
ARTHUR KESTEN,
•
•
INDEX TO THE WITHIN DEPOSITION
Examination by
Mr. Rosenberg
3
Examination by
Mr.· Rodgers
20
•
STIPULATION
MR. ROSENBERG: It is stipulated and agreed by and between
counsel present for the parties that. this deposition is being
·taken pprsuant to the Rules of Civil Procedure, at the instance
of the litigants, Pauline A. Kesten and Einer Kesten, for the
purpose of discovery; that no objections or motions are being
waived by reason of failure to assert the said objections or
motions at the time of the taking of the deposition, but that al~
objections and motions shall be placed upon the record by the
reporter, and then ruled upon by the Court at the time of trial.
(Addressing Counsel) Is ·that agreeable with you,. Mr. Rodgers?
MR. RODGERS: Yes; and Mr. Arthur Kesten will waive
signature to the deposition.
2
•
0
ARTHUR KESTEN, having been duly sworn, testifies as follows:
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
EXAMINATION BY MR. ROSENBERG:
What is your name, sir?
Arthur Kesten.
And your present address?
221 Minooka. Street, Pittsburgh.
Your age?
I'm forty-three.
And your occupation?
Bricklayer.
And by whom are you employed
I'm self-employed.
You have your own business?
Yes.
What do you go as; just as Arthur Kesten?
Yes, as Arthur Kesten.
And your wife's name?
Norma Kesten.
For how many years did you know Elizabeth Reickenbach?
All my life,
Would I be correct that you would see her perhaps a
few times a year?
Holidays; about the same as my brother; exactly I would
say the same as my brother.
Q Over the years, isn't it a fact that your brother and
his wife were friendlier with your Aunt Elizabeth and
Uncle Roy?
3
•
A No, I wouldn't say so.
Q And didn't they have some joint parties with them, at
which you were not presen~?
A Well, now when you're talking about parties, you're
talking about parties when I was more or less a child,
and my other brother, which is in Florida now, he and
4
my Uncle Roy, they would visit in those years, back whe~
I wasn't even married I would say, if what we're talkins
about is parties like that.
Q And in the last few years didn't Einer and his wife
visit your aunt much more than you and your wife?
A No. I don't know how I could number the times, because I
---number the times that they visited, you know, and
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
I don't think they would know when I visited my aunt.
There's no way that we would, you know, know that.
All right. Say during the last five years, how often
did you and your wife visit Mrs. Reickenbach?
I would say just holidays mostly.
In other words, two or three times a year?
Holidays, yes.
All right. And after she died, after her husband :died,
you learned about a will, did you not?
Yes, I did.
Q I think you went to her house?
A Well, I was told my aunt was going to make a will out
between Einer and I w ay before she had died. My mothe
and dad had told me this. I was aware of this before
it was even done. She was going to leave it, whatever
-·------1+--------------------------,--~---t--
<I
she had, to Einer and I. My mother had told me this,
before my mother had died.
Q When would that be?
A
Q
A
Q
Well, that would be, I would say around '65, '64.
Were you told after the will had been drawn?
Was I told?
Yes.
A Yes; I was invited out to my aunt's home to inspect the
will.
Q Einer was the one who called you; was he not?
A Well, I couldn't really say. He might have; . I can't
recollect.
Q At some point you told Einer, didn't you, "I wonder why
she has me included on there?", or words to that effect~
A I said, I wonder why she left it to either one of us
two, because neither one of us were close to her, you
know, like some people are, you know, families.
Q Didn't you say words to the effect that you wondered
why you were included on her will?
A Yes. I was more or less surprised. Let me put it that
way.
Q Right. And at the home there, what was the general
conversation after you s~w the will?
A
Q
A
I can't honestly say that I remember.
You don't remember any conversation?
I imagine I probably might have said I was satisfied
with whateV'er the will said. I really couldn't say;
I have no idea.
5
•
Q There was no conversation about what she had, was there?
A No, no.
Q Okay. Now, thereafter, you· did, of ~ourse, know that
she was in the Homestead Hospital?
A Oh, yes.
Q -'' And you knew that she asked to live with your brother,
Einer and his wife?
A She made the statement to me in the hospital while only
my wife and I were in the hospital, that Einer and
Pauline had asked her to come and live with them, and
she said to me, is that okay by me and I said, "That•s
fine." And she made the statement, she said, "That'll
change nothing in the will, or any changes between you
and I, Arthur."
Q Wasn't it the other way?
A Einer and Pauiine ---.
Q Wait. Didn't she state that she had asked them to live
with them?
A No. They asked her.
Q You started to say something else and I'm sorry I
interrupted. ~fuat were. you saying?
A I don't understand. They weren't present when my aunt
told me that she was going to live with them. Einer
6
and Pauline was not present at this time when I initial y
first learned that she was going to live with them.
They were not present at the hospital.
Q When was that?
A That was when she was in the hospital, in Homestead.
Q Do you remember when that was? The date?
A No. I have no idea. I have no recollection of the
exact dates, you know.
Q You knew that she did move to their home?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
And this was with your full approval?
Definitely. I thought it was a very good thing.
And she continued to live there until she died?
A Yes.
Q And she was in the hospital on several occasions there-
after?
A Yes.
Q Now, is it not correct that you did not visit her at
the home?
A That is not correct.
Q All right; state what you say?
A I visited with her on various occasions, but one
occasion that I know, and the only way I know the date
is because it was Easter. I visited them on Easter.
I remember this day. The rest of the days I have no
way of knowing.
Q All right. Now, are you saying that you went to Einer
and Pauline's home on Easter?
A Yes.
Q Of what year?
A '69.
Q With whom?
A My wife and I.
7
<I
8
Q And how long were you there?
A Until they were about to have their dinner, and I wasn'·~
invited to eat at their place, which I was not expected
I suppose. So I just said, "Well, I'll be leav'ing now. '
and I left. I guess we stayed maybe two hours.
Q Did you visit with Elizabeth; was she there?
A She was there, but I did not see her, no.
Q You didn'-t see her?
A No. She was in the bedroom.
Q I see.
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Pauline said she was sleeping.
You did not see her?
Not that day, no.
All right. Now, be specific; ---?
Now, I could possibly be mistaken between this occasion
visit and another one. I can't pinpoint it. There was
an occasion when I went out there that Aunt Elizabeth
was sleeping and they didn~ arouse her or wake her to
let her know that I was there. I stayed for an hour
or two. Now, I'm not really sure that's the occasion,
so maybe I shouldn't have said that, you know. We
visited there on not one or two occasions. I visited
my aunt out there and I took my father also to visit
my aunt at my brother's house.
How many times would you say? Be specific.
I have no idea. I didn't count them. I didn't think
it mattered.
Once?
•
•
A Oh, no. I would say at least maybe twice a month,
while she was in the house. When she was in the hospi
tal, we Yisited her eYery other day.
Q When was she in the hospital?
A What dates? I have no exact recollection of it. I
know she was in in the winter in January in Homestead,
you know, and I know that she was in, like around Marc ,
and then, of course; when she died. I have no exact
dates, no.
Q You don't eyen know how many times she was in the
hospital. How many times was she in the hos.pi tal?
A
Q
A
I didn•t keep an account of it.
Do you kno~how many times was she in the hospital?
Well, I'll say right off the bat, from January until
the time she died?
Q Yes.
A Three.
Q And what hospital in January?
A That was up where she lived; up in Homestead.
Q . And the other two times where?
A
Q
Out in Washington County.here.
Now, you say that you visited her at the Washington
Hospital?
A There were a few ---can I say what I feel?
Q Go ahead; say anything you want.
A There was one of the occasions when she went to the
Washington Hospital that I wasn't even called and noti
fied about. She was in there, I think, for two days,
9
Q
and my father had told me. There was no call made to
my home that she was even in this Washington Hospital.
I don't know which time that was now. It wasn't the
last time; I'll put it to you that way. I know it
wasn't the time when she was really so serious, when
she, you know.
And how many times are you saying that you visited her
at the Washington Hospital altogether?
A I would say we tried to see her every other night,
because this was quite a distance for us to travel.
Q You're saying that you were ---?
--10 I
A When I was of the knowledge that she was in the hospital.
Q Well, actually, on one occasion you told her, did you
not, ---?
A No; that is positively false.
Q that you could not be visiting her because it was
so far?
A No; that is positively false. I never made that state-
ment to my aunt nor anyone else. That would be ---
it's positively false.
Q And on other occasions, didn't you tell her that you
were going away for camping or hunting or something,
and couldn't see her?
A I don't recollect that I did. I could have. I won't
say that I didn't, but I don't remember saying that.
Q Didn't your brother, Einer and Pauline, on a number of
occasions call you and tell you that your aunt was
unhappy because you weren't visiting?
--------------------------
A No. Pa~line called and made a statement about laundry
and extra work that she had to do. I know of this call
This is calls I know of. Einer called once and said
my aunt would like to see me and I went out to visit
her. On one occasion, that's all I can remember.
Q Wasn't it more than one occasion when they told you she
was unhappy with you?
A No; very positively .not, no.
Q You knew, didn't you, that she was unhappy because you
weren't seeing her and didn't care about her?
A That's a false statement. I did care about her and I
did see her.
Q Did you not know and weren't you told that your aunt
was unhappy because she wasn't receiving visits from
you?
A No, never.
Q What happened the time you saw Einer and Pauline in the
parking lot?
A Well, this is when I was saying that Pauline had men-
tioned about the extra work she had with the bedding
and things, and I made the statement at that time:then,
if it's a problem in the house, for my aunt, you know, if
she was in that bad of shape. Then I said they could
hire a nurse to take care of her when she's back at the
house, when she comes back to the house, or if she
wanted to put her in a retiring home. I said, "For my
aunt's best interests," I said, "We should get our· heads
together", like they said, and "financially she has the
-.
•
<I
money to do it, I think she should have whatever is
necessary to take care of her, so that it does not put
Pauline in any extra work or strain." And I think
Pauline will say that is an exact statement.
12
Q Well, you suggested that she be put in a convalescent
home?
A No, I did not. I made no statement about a convalescen~.~
home. I didn't even use that word.
Q Nursing home?
A I might have said a nursing home. I made the statement
about hiring a nurse to take care of her. Whatever
Q
A
she would need, I said, ,.She's got the money to do it."
I said, "Whatever she needs, let's do it for her." Thi~
is more or less what I said to her in the parking lot.
And Pauline made the statement at that time that "She
doesn't have as much money as you think she has in the
bank, Arthur."
Well, didn't you know how she felt about going to some
kind of a home; did you or didn't you?
Oh, yes. I knew how she was about going to a home,
when she was in better health. Now, we're talking about
when my aunt was in a state where she was on her back.
Now, I made this statement when my aunt could no longer
could hardly, I would say she couldn't walk. She
couldn't walk and I made that statement.
Q Well, she came out of the hospital.
A Well, maybe she could walk from here to the door, you
know. She might have been able to walk to go to the
<I
bathroom. I would say that would be the extent of
her ---.
Q Walking?
A Yes.
Q She was mentally all right. She was alert.
A No; not at that time, she wasn't. She didn't appear to
She could hardly talk. Her cancer was in her ---.
Q Well, did she know you?
A Yes; she appeared that she knew me.
Q Was there ever a time that she didn't know you?
A No.
Q And was there ever a time when you saw her, as y·ou say
you made these visits, when she couldn't talk and knew
what was going on?
A It appeared that way, the last time she was in the
hospital. She was pretty bad, yes.
Q Now, you're saying the last time?
A Yes.
Q How about before that, how was she?
A In the hospital?
Q Yes. And at the home, too; how was she?
A She knew me and talked to me.
Q She was alert?
A Well, I wouldn't say she was as alert as she was before
I was talking about January. Let me put it that way.
She was steadily, you know, on the downgrade.
Q Well, now wait. She always knew you and she knew what
was going on?
13
-·----------4-------------------------------------------------------r---
A She knew what was going on if you told her what was
going on, yes.
Q Now, wait. You're not going to represent that like
from January on that she couldn't keep a conversation
with you?
A
Q
A
Q
Well, like I said, ---•
Now, I'm speaking of all the way through. Let's say
from January through July?
No: she never ~eally would keep a long conv·ersation
during that, no; during that time, no.
But she was alert enough that she knew what was going
on; didn't she?
MR. RODGERS: Mr. Rosenberg, I'm going to
ask you to explain what you mean by "what is
going on." I mean, whether it was daylight
or dark, or whether ---?
Q Would you say your aunt was alert?
A No; not really alert, not at that time she was living
at Einer's home.
Q All right. Would you say mentally she knew what she
was doing?
A
Q
I couldn't be of an authority to say that.
Could you talk to her?
A Yes.
Q Did she talk with you?
A She would answer back.
Q All right. Do you know what I mean by being rational;
by answering and talking?
14
A When we would talk, she wouldn't have that much to say.
My aunt was not a, how can you say it; a talker. You
couldn't just sit down for a couple hours and have a
big conversation; just like "How are you?", what type
of a day, that, you know.
Q But she had a mind of her own, didn't she?
A Oh, I hope so.
Q Always, am I not correct, over the years, this woman
had a rather strong mind, was even stubborn?
A Oh, my aunt was probably stubborn. That runs in the
family. My aunt was, how shall I say it? She was like
dependent upon her husband. Her husband did everything
for her. You know what I mean? He paid all the bills.
He took care of everything, and when he died she was
kind of like a lost sheep, you know.
Q I want to know, you say you saw her between January and
when she died in August?
A Yes.
Q I want to know whether or not you believe she was of
sound mind when you would see her?
MR. RODGERSs I'm going to object to that
question. You're asking for a medical opinion.
MR. ROSENBERG: No, just what he thinks.
A I would say during that time my,aunt was in the state oj
health that she could have been easily persuaded by
somebody which she trusted, like Einer and Pauline, or
myself.
1_.5_
•
Q Would you say whether or not ---?
A She would do what we would say. I would say that,
you know. She trusted us.
Q Would you say whether or not she was in sound mind;
knew what was going on?
A No, I really don't know.
Q Well, you saw her.
A I would say she could have been persuaded at that time,
with the medication and everything that she was taking,
very easily.
Q You didn't know what medication she was taking.
A I knew she was taking a lot of pain pills and sleeping
pills, because my sister-in-law told me; Pauline.
Q
A
Oh, in other words, you were told this?
Oh, yes; I didn't give her the medicine.
Q Was there ever a time that you talked to your aunt that
she wasn't responsive to your questions?
A Yes. The last time she was in the hospital, she could
hardly talk.
Q Other than the last time?
A No. She always could talk and we ·were always in good
standards. There was never a cross word between my
aunt from the time I knew her as a child until the day,
the last day I seen her in the hospital.
Q You could hold a conversation with her, couldn't you?
I'm speaking of between January ---?
A No, not really; not when she was ill, no. You couldn't,
not really; no.
16
•
Q You mean if you would talk to her, she wouldn't talk
back to you?
A Oh, yes.
Q She would or would not?
A
Q
She would.
She would talk back?
A Yes.
Q And she certainly was willing to talk, wasn't she?
A It seemed to me, yes.
Q And one conversation you had with her, where there was
another lady in the room that heard you talking with
her. Do you recall that?
A Yes, there was a lady in her room, a semi-private room
with her.
Q Your aunt had more physical problems than anything else
didn't she? You know what I mean, physical and mental?
Didn't she have more physical problems?
A No. Her health ·was all, yo~ know; she was.in a bad
physical state, yes.
Q But it didn't seem to affect her mentally, did it?
A Well, if you want to ask me if she was as sharp-mi:nded
in the last months that she lived with my brother; no,
she wasn't, definitely no.
Q But she was still sharp enough to know what was going
on around her?
A Well, that I don't know, because the only time I was
around her was mostly when she was in the hospital.
Q And it was only ---. Did you know what assets your
17
•
aunt had?
A Well, just talk of what she had. No, no exact amount
at that time.
Q What talk was there?
A Well, my aunt made the statement that she could buy lik
two $20,000.00 or $25,000.00 homes .
Q Who did she tell that to?
A I think it was my sister-in-law down Florida, but I'm
not sure.
Q When?
A Oh, somewheres around; I'd be just grabbing for years,
say around '62, somewhere like that. She made that
statement.
Q Did she make it to you or is that hearsay?
A She might have made that to my mother. I'm really not
sure. I shouldn't say. I can't say who she said it to
I was told that.
Q All right. Well, it's hearsay then?
A It might have been my mother or my sister-in-law.
Q Is this hearsay, or did she make it to you?
A No, she didn't make that right to me.
Q At any time did your aunt ever tell you what she had?
A
Q
No, no.
So you had no idea from her what she had?
A Exactly what she had, no.
Q She never told you?
A No. The only ones that would have known that exactly,
what she had, would have been Pauline and Einer. When
18
Q
A
they asked her to go live with them, they took all her
personal papers and everything out of her home, before
she left the hospital.
How do you know that? Were you there?
'Cause they told me they did, because I said, "We ought
to go get that stuff out of her house. •• and take it
do¥m his place and he said, "We already did. 11
Q But you don't know whether they saw it or whether they
kept it in a special box for her?
A No. They took it out of her home and put it in their
home.
Q But you're not representing whether or not ?
A No; they just took it from one home and put it in the
other home; that's all. I'll say that, yes.
Q Did you ever talk with the doctor about her?
A No.
Q You did not?
A No. Just the nurses in charge on the floor at the time
Q Did you ever, between January and August, know of your
own knowledge, of your aunt's mind to wander?
A No, because I'd just be around her for like maybe half
an hour, an hour or two at a time, you know.
19
Q
A
Well, weren't some of your visits even shorter than tha ?
Visiting hours most in the hospital. I'm putting a timE
basis on it because they only allow you to visit a
certain time.
MR. ROSENBERG: I think that is all.
•
A. Kesten -Rodgers 20
MR. RODGERS: I have just a couple questions
I would like to ask.
EXAMINATION BY MR. RODGERS:
Q When did you first learn about this codicil, Arthur?
A When Einer and Pauline came to my home approximately
two, three weeks after the funeral of my aunt.
Q Was your aunt able t·o read?
A To my knowledge: no. My dad said that she couldn't.
She neve~ really in front of me showed me just how
much she could or how much she couldn't.
Q You never saw her reading?
A No, I never did.
MR. RODGERS: That is all I have.
MR. ROSENBERG: I have no further questions.
-------~ ------
( DEPOSITION CLOSED )
•
•
•
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
COUNTY OF WASHINGTON
)
~ SS:
I, FLORENCE DASTA, a Notary Public, in and
~or the Commonwealth o~ Pennsylvania, do hereby certi~y that
the witness, ARTHUR KESTEN, was by me ~irst duly sworn accord-
ing to law, to testi~y to the truth, the whole truth and no-
thing but the truth; that the ~oregoing deposition was taken
at the time and place stated herein; and that the said deposi-
tion was reported stenographically by me and then reduced to
typewriting, under my direction, and constitutes a true and
correct transcript o~ the said deposition given by the above-
named witness.
I ~urther certi~y that the inspection, read-
ing and signing o~ the said deposition were waived by the
stipulation agreed upon by counsel.
I ~urther certi~y that I am not a relative or
employee or attorney o~ any o~ the parties, or a relative or
employee o~ either counsel, and that I am in no way interested
directly or indirectly in this action.
IN WITNESS 'WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
hand and a~~ixed my Notarial Seal this f-lit day o~ November,
1972 •
County
My Commission Expires:
March 9th, 1973·
21
(I
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PAYTOTHE
GENERAL ACCOUNT
200 WASHINGTO'N TRUST BUILDING
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• ®
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